Tracy Karate (stay out of this Joe)

[Rob B]

Tracy

Where is this fascination with boxing? Most of us are MMA fighters who use boxing merely as a tool. I find with sufficient modification and Thai boxing implementaion it is a very good striking base. Anyways lets adress your points, shall we.

"The only fallacy here is believing that training one way will prepare you for fighting a different way"

Can you tell me how your method is more advantageous. From my understanding, your partners are not really trying to hurt you or trying to finish you. How is this closer to the street than someone really trying to knock you out or really trying to take you down and finish you.

"Police officers do not need to learn to box because they need to subdue criminals. Soldiers do not learn to box because they need to kill their enemies"

Well since I am neither, I don't see how this is relevent.

"People walking on the street do not need to learn boxing because they will not be attacked by Sugar Ray Leonard. It is just that simple."

You will however run into ex boxers (especially in the N.E. United states) or alot of ex wrestlers (especially in the midwest); or even a fighter like Tank abott who hasn't had the formal training but who's punches are crisp and heavy. What will you do against these guys?

Bottom line: Assume your opponents are trained. Practice good principles hard against other trained opponents. The practice you have will then enable you to deal with the "untrained," version of that attack.

[crazyjoe380]

tracy fights out of shape losers at his camp

Originally posted by TracyKarate
So then why make the point that you have 3 sherrifd officers in your boxing gym? Try to think a little before you post.

sheriffs are always in boxing because in case..


Martial artist have a TOOL BOX

THE MORE YOU HAVE IN THAT TOOL BOX THE BETTER YOU'RE OFF..

tracy your style sucks and thats it..

[Rob B]

OK Joe, what the H E L L is your problem. I mean busting balls is fun sometimes but this is way too wierd; your like a stalker or something. I know Tracy is going to use this as an excuse not to adress my points and I really would like to understandwhy he thinks the way he does.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Rob, regardless of what 380 does or says, TK will not answer your questions. I have been bugging him for awhile....

Best of luck.

SZ

[TracyKarate]

I am open to all questions. I am quite willing to share my knowledge with all of you, but when certain malicious people are constantly attacking myself as well as my style, it is difficult to see every post directed my way. Possibly if the question was on it's own thread I could answer them more easily.

Robert, I believe this will answer a number of your questions above. When in a boxing match, the two combatants will set up their knockouts with jabs, footwork and so forth. on the street, there are no points, judges, so a thug will tray to knock you out with a wild haymaker type of attack. This is why it is foolish to train boxing as a main style of striking. It is too limited! My arguments against boxing stem from previous statements that boxing will teach one how to handle any attack on the street. This is a fallacy.

[Biker]

Actually, boxing works rather well on the street. It is the one of just a few styles that train and spar full force nearly 100% of the time. Training like that toughens the body, allowing a boxing to not only deliver serious punishment but to absorb it as well. Go ahead, nail a boxer as hard as you can. You will quickly feel just how hard a boxer's body is.

A boxer trains in the ring with points and rules in mind, outside of the ring a switch gets turned and things start to get interesting. Elbows, headbutts, etc.

TracyKarate, you are correct in stating that boxing will not prepare you for any situation. To think that any style can is the fallacy. The ability to improvise and adapt will help you on the street, not any particular fighting style. All any fighting style does is provide a person with the tools, it is up to each individual to learn how and when to use them.

Have a nice day

[Rob B]

"so a thug will tray to knock you out with a wild haymaker type of attack. This is why it is foolish to train boxing as a main style of striking. It is too limited!"

I'm sorry tracy I might be slow but I'm still not getting this. A boxers is trained to defend against a very quick, untelegraphed and very precise hook punch. How in the hell is a wide swinging, extremely telegraphed punch going to get through. I'm baffled I can't see how boxing is limiting in this scenario since it is designed SPECIFICALLY to defend against a punch.

"My arguments against boxing stem from previous statements that boxing will teach one how to handle any attack on the street. This is a fallacy."

I agree with you boxing ALONE is not nearly enough for the streets; you definately need more. Most of us here are MMA fighters and all of us would agree. I'd really like to know where you heard this, can you tell me who said that boxing was enough for the streets.

Also tracy, if you could answer these question directlyfor me; if it isn't too much trouble.

#1 What would you do on the street if you are facing a guy who threw a nice clean boxing hook at you or a wrestlers double leg. (Don't tell me it's never going to happen because it happened to me)

#2 How do you know your techniques work?

[Halloween Jack]

Boxin'

Originally posted by Rob B

In reality, with bare knuckles you cannot pull of alot of the punches, combinations and tactics you do in boxing. How do you do it with out breaking your knuckles?

You've got a good point there. I would like to train boxing for punching skill, but one thing I notice when I watch pro boxing matches is that they're not as careful with their punches...they don't have to be, because the gloves protect them from broken hands and wrists (although it sometimes happens anyway).

One thing I saw was that many boxers throw hooks with a swinging vertical fist...I would never want to hit someone's skull, or even their jaw, with such punching form.

One thing I always wonder about MMA and JKD guys is why they always seem to use the fist and never edge-hand (knifehand) or bottom-fist (hammerfist) techniques. They do damage and don't incur the same risk of injury as closed fists.

Good grief, how many Japanese guys have gotten knocked out by Bas Rutten's palms?

[mushinmaster]

The vertical fist is more anatomically correct than a horizontal fist.

Have you ever done knuckle push-ups?? Don't tell me you use a horizontal fist???

[LEGION]

Gentlemen, why do you keep erroneously stating that boxing gloves keep you from breaking your hands? They do not. The hand-wraps protect your hands and wrist. The gloves keep your wrap hardened fists from fracturing your opponents skull.
Tracykarate, you stated that soldiers do not train in boxing. This statement is incorrect. I have before me right now a copy of the USMC close quarters combat manual. In it straght punches, hooks, shovel hooks, and uppercuts are shown as the main unarmed weapons. Why? Because they have been proven battlefield effective, and the quickest way to incapitate or kill an opponent. A bare knuckle shovel hook to the ribs has served my friends and myself well as means to quickly end a physical confrontation. I hope that others may learn this too, but not too many, i might have to fight them some day.

[Rob B]

Very true Legion, your hands are like cement after the hand wraps and the tape. I can't imagine what it would be like getting hit with one of those. I've been in MMA mode for too long and I was thinking about the open finger gloves that they use. It is a fact though that since the fighters have worn these gloves, there has been far less hand breaks in competition. Where as the early days it was very common.

I just wanted to know, It seems that everyone in Texas views there State as almost a seperate country. Why is that?

[LEGION]

Rob B, you seem like the type of guy who can handle a straight answer , so i will tell you. Arrogance. From day one our public schools teach us to be proud of every inconsequential detail of Texas' history. After a couple of years , it's automatic.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Legion,
that's the wrong attitude to have in the 21st century. You should be more humble and act more needy and victimatic. You'll never get anywhere in this country if you think you are independent and self sufficient.

You should be making statements like "What about me? Who will help me? It's not my fault, I'm a victim of an unfair society!"

All these arrogant statements that are traditionally Texan will not lead to increased Federal spending in your behalf son.....



SZ

[Rob B]

Legion that's hilarious, I can just imagine Texans running on the streets yelling " Remember the Alamo " and waiving the Texas flag.


Halloween Jack,

I agree with mushinmaster, a verticle fist is more natural and I think safer than a horizontal fist. I new a guy who used to train at the IMB academy in Cali; well he got into a fight and threw a hook with a horizintal fist and tore his pinky and ring finger knuckle.

A hammer fist would definately work, and would be a simple variation from an overhead right. The knife hands i never liked, it has to hit clean to be effective; anything glancing and it really doesn't do much.


Tracy Karate,

Have you given up on this debate?

[Halloween Jack]

Vertical Fist

I use vertical punches all the time, and yes, they are better and safer for your hands than the horizontal fist.

I was talking about the way I see some boxers throw their hook punches: They do it by making a vertical fist, then swinging the fist sideways into their opponent's head, making contact with the side of the fist where the thumb is instead of with the four knuckles.

I think that would hurt my hand more than my victim's head if I wasn't wearing gloves.