Brazilian JiuJitsu / Gracie JiuJitsu

[Populist]

I've been wondering about BJJ. Is it for self defence, or is it just a competition sport (not just Ultimate Fighting of course)? Both maybe?

[Populist]

Of course you can use it for self defence either way but...

[crazyjoe380]

USE BOXING FOR TOP FIGHTING...AND IT AINT GOING YOUR WAY..TAKE IT TO THE GROUND..


SIMPLE..

MULTIPLE APPONENTS...

LEARN TO KICKBOX.....

DO YOU BEST...HAHAHAHAHAHA

[JaredExtreme]

It is generally agreed BJJ is geared more towards competition rather than self-defence. However, a great deal of BJJ techniques can be applied to self-defence situations. Also, A Black Belt in BJJ will beat a Black Belt's ass from any other art.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Maybe a black belt, but certainly not a ninja. Ask Shimora!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Szczepankiewicz is correct!

[GregG]

Interesting

Is that Szczepankiewicz agreeing with himself?

Jared: I would have to say that what you suggest is terribly unlikely. To say that any Black Belt of one style would always beat every Black Belt from any other style in any situation is a bit extreme. In any "real" fight strategy is likely to be more important than technique. "Age and treachery beats youth end naivete" and all that.

[soho]

Jared, by who is it generally agreed that BJJ is geared more towards Comp than self-defense. I'd say BJJ along with boxing and clinch work are the 3 arts most geared toward real life.

If your suggesting that you really don't want to go to the ground in real life...That’s true, but the ground happens whether you like it or not. If your suggesting that BJJ can't defeat multiple opponents...Well that’s because the best art against multiple opponents is track.

[JaredExtreme]

GregC: A BJJ black belt beating a BB from another art is unlikely? I don't know what rock you've been living under for the last 20 years. The average time it takes to get a BB in Karate/TKD is 3-5 years. The time to get a BJJ BB is usually around 8 (I've been doing it for 8 months and I still have a white belt.). BJJ doesn't hand out black belts to little kids or to the elderly just because they go to 2 classes every week. BJJ BB'S have more training and are in physically better condition then other BB. If you disagree with this, go to your local Karate/TKD/Kung Fu and have yourself a look-see.

Soho: BJJ with boxing is COMPLETELY different from having just BJJ alone. At my school (and most others), we do this thing called sparring where you practice jiujitsu on a partner, and you try to make each other submit. However, most BJJ sparing doesnt include striking, which makes it geared more towards competition and less towards street fighting. However, if someone were to incorperate boxing into BJJ, they would be a very formidble street fighter.

[soho]

Every bjj place I have been to always had days where we worked with hitting. Genally more time is spent without putting the hits in because it takes a certain about amount of time to develop a ground game. As a beginner if you start out including strikes your ground game may never develop.

In kickboxing you don’t necessarily spar full out every time you train. It the same with bjj you don’t go full out with hits every time.

If your main goal is to compete in tournaments you might spend even less time working with hits. But I have to tell you all the guys I know who do well in BJJ tournaments are guys that I would not want to get into a fight with.

That would be like saying that wrestling is only for competition and not for fighting. How come good wrestlers kick so much ass then?

[GregG]

Read closely Jared

Originally posted by JaredExtreme
GregC: A BJJ black belt beating a BB from another art is unlikely? I don't know what rock you've been living under for the last 20 years. The average time it takes to get a BB in Karate/TKD is 3-5 years. The time to get a BJJ BB is usually around 8 (I've been doing it for 8 months and I still have a white belt.). BJJ doesn't hand out black belts to little kids or to the elderly just because they go to 2 classes every week. BJJ BB'S have more training and are in physically better condition then other BB. If you disagree with this, go to your local Karate/TKD/Kung Fu and have yourself a look-see.

Jared: I didn't say it was unlikely that a BJJ Black Belt would beat another black belt from another style. I said it was unlikely that the worst BJJ black belt would beat the best Black Belt in every other style in the world. That is what you are asserting when you say:
A Black Belt in BJJ will beat a Black Belt's ass from any other art.

Pull back a little on the extremes. The real world is a little different than that. I haven't been under a rock, I just happen to have a clearer view of reality than you are exhibiting.

[gnr]

Krystyn's ultimate martial arts tip: never judge an artist by the art they take.

Hmmm....so you are saying that a Karateka always loses to the BJJ black belt. I really don't think so. Especially since different artists approach things different ways, and also that people in stand-up arts are generally more likely to cross-train than people who are into grappling. If someone can kick ass standing up and generally keep away from horrible damage on the ground, I'd say they won.

And I take TKD....I go to class around four times a week and have to earn every belt just like I would if I was ever going to move up in BJJ (fourteen years old, training with a bunch of guys, just started, hehe). I think that someone who is a black belt in any art is generally proficient.

McDojo: a dojo or dojang which generally "gives away" belts in exchange for the practitioner's money.

A non-McDojo: the exception, not the rule, though when you find one, you are going to get quality training from a quality instructor.

BJJ is fairly new - while Karate is not. No doubt the arts will keep prograssing, and when BJJ is a couple of thousand years old then we can compare.

[Szczepankiewicz]

What is the curriculum in your TKD school like?

Do you spar full contact?
Grapple?
Strike?
Practice transitions?
Practice escapes?
Practice multiple attackers?
Are you able to employ and defend:
chokes, locks, or throws?
Simulate self-defense situations?
Handle the psychological stress of confrontation with a presumabley overpowering opponent?

Enquiring minds want to know.

SZ

P.S. Welcome to the forum.

[JaredExtreme]

GregC:

I didn't say it was unlikely that a BJJ Black Belt would beat another black belt from another style. I said it was unlikely that the worst BJJ black belt would beat the best Black Belt in every other style in the world.

Whoa Whoa Whoa, are you saying there are exceptions to every rule Greg? Oh my gosh! I didn't know that!! Sure, some karateka over in Japan could probably whoop Helios ass, but the fact of the matter is that a BJJ has the toughest, most trained Black Belts. Furthermore, before you go putting words into people's mouths, which is demonstrated in this example of your wit:

That is what you are asserting when you say: A Black Belt in BJJ would beat a Black Belt's ass from any other art.

you should read more closely to what others say. Tell me Greg, where in there does it say BJJ BB's will win every fight, against ALL opponents? Oh, whoops it doesn't.

So, to summarize it up for you Greg:

1. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. (Usually people learn this around 3rd grade.)

2. Putting words into people's mouths is a bad thing.

[tigerking]

hey guys
who doesnt like to boost up the art that they practice. i have definitely sinned here.
well im a biased begger too. im a muay thai exponent,
personally i think the simplest forms of attack can be the most effective, as has been evidenced in all these UFC etc. A mixed martial artist with stand up striking skills and ground grappling is obviously going to be the most well rounded fighter. but i believe a good fighter will have natural talent, as in anything in life, and will instinctively know where to move and what to throw self consciously.

As for the japanese/korean MA, im sorry people, this is just my opinion, it takes far too long to become adequately able to defend oneself i believe. who has 10 years to learn and master a martial art when you could be mugged or attacked tommorrow. And although some attain BB status in 3-5 years, i dont believe many are adequately able to fight efficiently in many cases. Although there would be exceptions, hardcore people totally devoted.

And although at one stage i was completely biased, i believe now it is the individual and not so much the style on practices, although some styles do have noticeable advantages over others.

In saying all this, in my chosen art MT, i think after 2 years, one would be well rounded in its attributes and well and truly ready for a ring fight or anything on the street hand to hand wise. Although learning is fast and it would vary from individuals as to how well and quickly you would pick the moves up. Even after 6 months you can adequately defend yourself in this art.

Anyhow im going to a BJJ class this week, its based on the Machado BJJ, could anyone please tell me the difference between perhaps the Gracie and Machado styles?