Gene Lebell vs. Milo Savage

[Zeke]

I was just checking the Boxing Records online and thought about checking Milo Savage. He is the fighter who fought Gene Lebell in the mixed fight in about 1962. The stories I had read in martial arts magazines claimed that Savage was a top ten Heavyweight, who challenged Lebell. His recored indicates otherwise.
Savage was a middleweight, much older(born in 1926) than Lebell in addition to being much smaller. He was no contender at middleweight either. His overall record in boxing was 42-40-10, And he had retired in April of 1960, his career began in 1945. It is amazing that people were impressed enough by Lebell's win to write a song about the fight.
This couldn't have been very impressive. Savage was a retired, much smaller, much older, run of the mill boxer. He was never a top fighter. He had lost 4 out of the last 5 fights he had before retiring and fighting Lebell in the mixed fight 2-3 years later.
It is funny how legend and exaggeration can add to an event over the years. This fight was probably a non-event when it took place.

[Mad Dog]

Didn't it take Judo Gene more than one round to beat the guy, also? Whats up with that? A grappler of his calibre should have destroyed any boxer!

[Zeke]

Mad Dog, I think it went 4-7 rounds. And Milo Savage was wearing gloves. I don't know what happened, but didn't LeBell weigh over 200 pounds? Savage was about 11-12 years older, much smaller, and if he was like most boxers, he probably wasn't in great shape two years after he retired from the ring. Not criticizing LeBell, but some of the writers in the martial arts magazines have been less than truthful about this event.

[L3FTH00K]

Is there still debates in here between strikers and grapplers? I hope not! Thats why it's called mixed martial arts. Look a boxers worst nightmare is a grappler. A grapplers worst nightmare is a grappler who can punches like a boxer.

[Zeke]

This was not debate on ground fighting - boxing. I think you are probably right, the best fighters will be crossed trained in both ground fighting and boxing.
We still have no idea how a top boxer would do in MMA. There is just not enough money in MMA to interest a top fighter. The boxers that have competed have been over the hill, out of shape guys. Milton Bowen, Art Jimmerson, Sam Adkins, and Milo Savage are nowhere near top boxers. On the other hand, Don Frye supposedly had 8 pro fights and he did well. Of course he was also very good on the ground.

[Mad Dog]

Where did that come from? This is about a specific fight, labell vs. Savage, not about strikers vs. grapplers. Grappling superiority was established years ago. However, as previously mentioned, the best fighters can grapple and strike.

[Zeke]

I don't know if the superiority of grappling over striking has been established, but it helps if the individual can both box and grapple. The individual competing is more important than the style used. A good boxer/striker has not fought in a MMA contest. There have been top grapplers involved in MMA, but there has never been a top boxer/striker.

[Mad Dog]

This thread is almost becoming a bit trollish! There's no reason to believe a pure boxer of any caliber would do any better than what we've seen so far. True, freaks like Tyson and Roy Jones would have a better chance of winning with strikes only, but the odds would still be greatly against them! If they learned grappling skills first it would nullify the whole argument! A good submission fighter would have a much better chance of beating an opponent without striking than a striker would have of beating an opponent without grappling skills. The reason most of the strikers have looked so bad is because they can't handle grapplers, not because they aren't good at striking.

[Groin Grab]

I don't think the originol intention of this post was to make it a striker or boxer vs a grappler thing but point out the fact that Judo Gene Lebells little victory over this boxer as been exaggerated and mistold, I read that story in an issue of martial arts legends presents grappling and the version I got on it from there was that Judo Gene Lebell kicked Ass on one of the best boxers in the world not that he kicked ass one some old guy that was twenty pounds lighter than him and retired. I just think it sucks that all the magazines out there are such poor sources of information you can never tell what's true and whats not from a damn magazine.

[Zeke]

Yep Groin Grab, the intent of the post was to show that the story has been embellished over the years. It doesn't seem like a very impressive win when Savage's size, age, and boxing record are considered.

Mad Dog, I don't know how a good boxer would do in MMAs. No one does, because it has never happened. The only boxers that have been in MMA competition are guys of Milo Savage's caliber. We can only speculate how a Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, or Lennox Lewis would perform. We do know that at one time Igor V. was a top NHB fighter. He did well with mostly punching, but his punching was not even close to that of a top boxer.