bjj vs regular jj for self defence

[Szczepankiewicz]

How many throats have they slit? How many knife in the rib handle throws do they demonstrate on an annual basis? This falls in line with the eye gouging methodology as well.

[crazyjoe380]

you are right...The 'TRADITIONAL JJ" school i used to attend used KEMPO KARATE in their style...


NOT FOR ME

OUR BJJ IS MIXED WITH BOXING..WESTERN BOXING...AND MUAY THAI..

[sccr06]

SZ and Crazyjoe are correct.

[Scott Harper]

you may not use the techniques, but I think it is good to preserve them. There are many techniques that have been lost before, but sooner or later they will be found again because there are only so many ways that you can manipulate the body.

Of course when you're saying about how many throats you've cut, you can also say how many fencing or kendo stylist have actually had a duel or slashed somebody with a sword.

Professor Kano preserved some of the old jiu-jitsu schools in the kata's. I'm glad he did.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Now if you are speaking from a traditional perspective, I think it is important to preserve the classic techniques, and to point out that they are indeed classical components of said art.

However, using eye gouging, throat slashing etc, I think you are enterting a dangerous trianing world.

My attack is not against you, it is against the training of certain methodologies that involve 'techniques' that are rarely used and traumatic to target and artist as well.

My thoughts aren't clearly organized on this subject, and there is a lot of gray area, so I would much appreciate continued debate on this issue.

Back into Kendo training however, the same moves that are done with a practice sword will easily translate into stick movements. Not all of them, but a good part I would imagine. This is different than knife training (or cutting edge training) where you slash and stab as opposed to blunt trauma strikes.

As you can tell I have been reading a lot of MacYoung and am trying to get this somewhat straight with my training philosophies, so any input on this subject would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

SZ

man am I tired this morning...

[Scott Harper]

I think that what you study should depend on what a person is interested in, or likely to use. Techniques used would depend on the situation. An executive probably wouldn't like a sport where there was a lot of competition. Henry Ford Jr. studies tai chi, and one of the Bush sons or grandsons (Budweiser) studied Hapkido. They probably won't use those techniques though.

Then you get into the aspect of what the does in life. Is he in the military, police, or civilian. Case in point is that police can't shoot through walls, though military and civilian can. The training would be altered in those cases. A policeman would do good in aikido, and to a lesser extent judo. It training would depend on what the person is likely to come up against. Eye gouging, throat slashing, etc.. could be trained to let a person know what is out there among the techniques, but for kata or demonstrative purposes.

In a sport, the rules are are protect the participants. Some rules have been recently outlawed, such as throwing a person on his head in judo, or where you grab a person's leg when he kicks in muay thai and 'bulldog' him to the ropes in muay thai. Should those be taught along with other techniques and just not be done in competition? I think so.

I think statistics showed that a person gets into a fight about 3 times in his lifetime. Some a lot more, and some a lot less. Should a person look to avoid those fights or spend most of his time training of anticipation for those?

-I'm just trying to get a better discussion going than some of the past petty, childish arguments and make this a better board. Many things need to be discussed, and through that a person can find his own way. My training would probably not be good for another person, but I like to know where other people stand on issues.

[shinbushi]

Not like eye-gouging

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
How many throats have they slit? How many knife in the rib handle throws do they demonstrate on an annual basis? This falls in line with the eye gouging methodology as well.

You missed my point, I was responding to the idea that classical jujutsu were for when you lost your weapon, not how deadly or effective they are. I explained that it was actually to be used in conjunction with weapons. And for training you can practice slitting throats with tech using a wood, aluminum, unsharpened blade, or a red Sharpe marker for sparring. How hard is it to put on an armbar on, take them down and have them controlled, run the training blade across their throat? Also classical styles practice cutting (tamashigiri) soaked straw mats to lean how to cut. Most kendoka cannot even cut with a sword. (not that you would use a sword now-a-days, but it did happen last year in Australia) For throws an example is take O Soto Gari, which we call O Soto Gake. Instead of heave-hoing with just the lapels, unarmed we strike to the face or neck to help take his balance then throw. Armed you stick your training knife into the neck or shoulder whichever you get which biomechanicaly causes him to crunch foreword, taking his balance then throw. Judo and classical jujutsu have a lot in common, just modern judo took out the strikes and weapons. If you cannot get it to work unarmed it won't work armed. Once again I was not going into the kung-fu type of 'too deadly' argument, I was just saying how the classical arts use weapons with grappling. Most of the principals of Judo and JJJ are the same, just the JJJ has a wider curriculum, and uses strikes to help off-balance the opponent.