Seattle Streetfight: 3 on 1, lone guy gets beaten & shot

[JaredExtreme]

Last New Year during a fireworks display a fight broke out between 2 guys. One was a Private from a local army base and another just a civilian. After these two started fighting, two friends of the civilian jumped in and held down the soldier while he was beaten. The soldier was later shot by one of the civilians, 3 times in the back and twice in the shoulder.

Ok, so right about now you're saying. "That really sucks, but this kinda stuff happens everyday."

But what makes this different was that they released a videotape of the fight to the media.

During the initial fight the soldier shoots in for a takedown and his opponent does a clumsy guilotine which has no affect. The soldier is about to get the mount when the 2 buddies run in and tackle him. (After that he was probably shot). BJJ is offered to the Ranger division where this soldier was stationed at. Whether he had BJJ experience or just wrestling, I have no idea.

It was very troubling to me to see the same general techniques that I would use in a fight end up in one person losing his life. However, before the "I told you BJJ is bad for Street fighting!" comments start rolling in, let me say that I doubt ANY martial art could have saved this guys life against 3 attackers and one gun.

[JaredExtreme]

A full account of the story can be found at

http://www.komotv.com/stories/18303.htm

[Guest]

From reading the story it sems that the soldier was the initial aggressor. Not much of an advert for the US Rangers.

[Biker]

I would have to disagree on the Army Ranger being the aggressor. My reasoning being that it was New Years Eve and he was out having a good time spreading some cheer, although a bit loudly from what it says. The three teenagers actually instigated the confrontation, in my opinion, by cursing at Franz. If it were me they were cursing at, I would have confronted them as well. Sounds to me like the teens felt like they could take on the world together especially since they had a gun. Not having been there, that is my interpretation of what happened from the article. I will admit that confronting the teens was not the smartest thing to do. The best thing to do would be to just let it go.

[Bau]

takes ALOT more than 3 teenagers cursing at me to get me to fight.... that guy must have been REALLY insecure....
They probably wanted him to confront them...and....he did...
big mistake...

So what if 3 idiots are calling you a ##$@er?

you may not like it...but hey...its 3 vs you... you think its a Bruce Lee movie or something? PLUS one of them had a gun....
BUT alchohol had ALOT to do with it too... drinking and guns...never a good thing...


damn this world is @*#@ed up...well not the whole world but some people in it...

[Guest]

1st rule of self defence - avoid places where confrontation is likely.

2nd rule of self defence - when the possibility of aggression raises its ugly head, leave.

3rd rule of self defence - use dialouge to talk your way out of a fight

4th rule of self defence - hit first then run like mad.


There. Follow the above and you may never need your skills. If you don't feel you should spend time avoiding the possibility of conflict, it is because you are not mature enough.

[Bau]

nice set of rules Bri...

although...my skills WOULD help in rule no.4!!!
Make that first hit count!!

In my experience...you can "feel" when something ugly is gonna happen in a bar etc.... even if its not anything to do with me..I just get the hell out of the place...

[Guest]

I forgot to mention the underlying strategy of awareness, that goes throughout all the above rules.

Geoff Thompson highlights a colour code system.

White - totally in day dream land. Not the place you want to be, but this is where many of us are most of the time.

Yellow - intentionally cultivating an awareness of people and situations around you.

Orange - a threat is recognised and constantly assessed.

Red - This is now in your face threat of violence. And it is flight or fight time.


see www.geoffthompson.com for more info on his books and videos. His speciality is dealing with pre fight considerations and pre emptive strikes, as well as fighting techniques.

[jhinds]

I posted this in another thread and it seems appropriate here as well:

"I can verify that lots of bar fights go to the ground. I played music professionally for about 8 years in a rock band. A byproduct of that was spending lots of time in clubs and bars in various states(I orginally meant location, not state of mind ), waiting to go on stage. During that time, I saw tons of fights and yes, most all of them hit the ground for one reason or another.

Most of this seemed to be from the fighters lack of coordination in an adrenalized state. Sometimes, it was just from a knockdown. But rarely when the fighters hit the ground, would it stay one on one. Once on the ground, this gave less brave people in the crowd the courage to attack one of the original fighters. Quite a few times, it was a sneaky uppercut or a beer bottle to the back of the head. In the extreme cases, it was a group of the fighter's friends stomping the other fighter unconcious and sending him to the hospital. Sometimes even worse."

In my experience, this type of scenario is really common. In general, it takes a lot more balls to charge in on a guy that just knocked your toughest buddy on his ass with a punch, than it does to crack a beer bottle over the back of his head when he is on the ground and not looking.

Everyone starts out with the "Bruce Lee" fantasy of what they will do when they are in a real fight for the first time. Its amzaing how many Bruce Lee's stand there in shock and eat a fist. Even with years of MA training, I'm not saying I am any different. But after seeing what can and really does happen in a fight, I decided several years ago to make it my absolute last alternative in heated situations.

I want to check out Geoff Thompson. Peyton Quinn is another good authority on this subject. Might check him out as well.

[defendu.com]

Good sources and roger on Army training

I really like Geoff Thompson and Payton Quinn's stuff. You should also check out Mark MacYoung, Tom Proctor and Bob Orlando. Relson Gracie is amazing with his stuff and I really like Pedro Sauer's stuff. (Pedro has some video tapes out with more coming).

And, yes, the Army Rangers are really gung ho on Rorion Gracie's program of GJJ. They have adopted it at some of the highest levels for officers and enlisted men. Delta Force trains heavily in it and there seems to be more and more SEALs that have changed their tunes (in the 90s they were doing SCARS and SAFTA and vowed they would never waste time on the ground).

I think Gun-do would have been the lone guy's only hope...

[Szczepankiewicz]

You might also want to check out Alain Burrese. He is an associate of Peyton Quinn and Marc MacYoung. Real good guy to talk to.

SZ

https://www.burrese.com