Is there controversy with the mixed martial artist and the kung fu fighters?

[Shard]

I train in CMA. Traditional Wushu in fact.
The problem i see with many TCMAs is this, Not enough realistic training. Its definately not the syllabus that has a problem.
Almost every possible, strike, block , punch or kick is there. Its the way that the student are trained that causes the problem.
They don't train the way they want to fight. Sparring usually reverts to somesort of kick boxing match, and certain techniques are seldom used. Lack of Effective/Proper pad work and too much slow-mo Combat applications.
Perhaps if changes are made and more modern training techniques are used than we could see a big improvement upon the current situation with TCMA fighters.

But Sanda/San Shou seems to be left out in this topic. Since it is a CMA it should be included here. San Shou is the Mauy Thai of all CMA. Its Devastating and throws and take downs are also drilled into its fighters Not to mention that San Shou has won MT in more than a few occasions even in thailand.

If only TCMAs trained like that than KF would start winning more fights.

[Oraenor]

I train in CMA. Traditional Wushu in fact.
The problem i see with many TCMAs is this, Not enough realistic training. Its definately not the syllabus that has a problem.
Almost every possible, strike, block , punch or kick is there. Its the way that the student are trained that causes the problem.
They don't train the way they want to fight. Sparring usually reverts to somesort of kick boxing match, and certain techniques are seldom used. Lack of Effective/Proper pad work and too much slow-mo Combat applications.
Perhaps if changes are made and more modern training techniques are used than we could see a big improvement upon the current situation with TCMA fighters.

But Sanda/San Shou seems to be left out in this topic. Since it is a CMA it should be included here. San Shou is the Mauy Thai of all CMA. Its Devastating and throws and take downs are also drilled into its fighters Not to mention that San Shou has won MT in more than a few occasions even in thailand.

If only TCMAs trained like that than KF would start winning more fights.

Dont comment on somthing you've never trained in. I am a TCMA and we fight as well as any MMA would. Talk about poor fighting skills, look at yourself, a wushu dance queen who believes that chinese propaganda wushu is better than realistic TCMA. TCMA is very realistic despite some odd movements, all it takes is a good teacher to understand the concept and the transmission of the art's quality does not diminish.

[BoarSpear]

The majority of Kf schools seem too specialized. There is an intelligent order to study of the CMA's that has been neglected due to the time it takes to do it right isnt ideal for commercialism. Nor does it suit the average human beings lifestyle. If you train in early childhood to do joint circling, 18 vital energy exercises and cat and monkey walking then add Shuai jiao to the mix. You have a base to add the striking and locking aspects of the CMAs over the top of.

The Iron Butterfly did quite well in his challenges and fights with a Shuai Jaio/Taiji background.

The conditioning that allowed the palms to be an effective weapon is also neglected, I believe thats why so many CMA people fall back on eye pokes and ball grabs. The CMAs practiced forms, 2 man sets, weapons sets, energy sensing drills and conditioning. Without any one of those components its a incomplete system and structurally unsound. You must be able to Strike, Lock, and Throw. Without each aspect present you have a weakness.

[Shard]

Dont comment on somthing you've never trained in. I am a TCMA and we fight as well as any MMA would. Talk about poor fighting skills, look at yourself, a wushu dance queen who believes that chinese propaganda wushu is better than realistic TCMA. TCMA is very realistic despite some odd movements, all it takes is a good teacher to understand the concept and the transmission of the art's quality does not diminish.

Looks like you need to listen to your own advice.

Firstly, i didn't say all TCMAs were like that. i'm saying that the problems tend to lie with within those areas. and many schools need to work on these areas before trying to compete and shame the TCMA community. Worst part is, some don't even do any TCMA and call their Mcdojo, Bear style Kung fu.

Secondly, Traditional Wushu is nothing like its Contemporary counterpart. Its forms aren't high flying and acrobatic. Actual combat applications are taught and done in real time. Sparring also involves the use of techniques learnt in forms.
"Wu shu" merely means Martial Arts. Therefore Shaolin is also a category of Traditional Wushu. Hung gar, Pak mei, Five animal forms, Wing chun, Tai Chi quan, etc all fall into the category. So are you saying your a dance queen too?

Don't just look at the Words WUSHU and think flying chinese acrobats. And don't look at the words KUNG FU and think Wong Fei Hong.

Wushu means Martial arts and Kung Fu means Mastery/Hard work. If you want to use Chinese words, at least grasp the meaning.

Ps: To the idiot who posted Tai Chi meant Ultimate fist. You or whoever taught you this counterfit translation, ought to get an Ultimate fist where the sun don't shine. Chi means Energy. Tai means Limitless.
(sorry felt i had to clear up the language problem.)

That aside, Yes, i agree that it takes a good teacher to show the forms and to explain the individual steps of a form properly.
There were times when i thought a move was a finger thrust when in fact it was a type of reverse Chop. It does look odd but when one actually does it with understanding, one realises how effective it actually is and how many applications a parry actually has.

[Oraenor]

Looks like you need to listen to your own advice.

Firstly, i didn't say all TCMAs were like that. i'm saying that the problems tend to lie with within those areas. and many schools need to work on these areas before trying to compete and shame the TCMA community. Worst part is, some don't even do any TCMA and call their Mcdojo, Bear style Kung fu.

Secondly, Traditional Wushu is nothing like its Contemporary counterpart. Its forms aren't high flying and acrobatic. Actual combat applications are taught and done in real time. Sparring also involves the use of techniques learnt in forms.
"Wu shu" merely means Martial Arts. Therefore Shaolin is also a category of Traditional Wushu. Hung gar, Pak mei, Five animal forms, Wing chun, Tai Chi quan, etc all fall into the category. So are you saying your a dance queen too?

Don't just look at the Words WUSHU and think flying chinese acrobats. And don't look at the words KUNG FU and think Wong Fei Hong.

Wushu means Martial arts and Kung Fu means Mastery/Hard work. If you want to use Chinese words, at least grasp the meaning.

*Shakes head*
The communist got to you didnt they?

Things that make TCMA look bad:
*Mc Dojos
*Bad Teachers
*Communist "cover up"

Firstly the Mc Dojos, silly small businessmen and franchises that promote somthing that doesnt exist and doesnt work

Bad teachers are the ones that have learnt alot but have a lack of application/ experience or that they dont know how to teach.Not all are bad practitioners but these people should not teach.

The communist cover up is the major confusion of the art. As a rule of thumb, anything made by the communist are called wushu, anything made by chinese without the influence of communism is called kung fu. I know wushu means martial art but as a rule of thumb, if the communist aint promoting it, its called kung fu. There is no such thing called ancient wushu, this concept in word was created by the communist to basically breed us out.


Things that dont matter:
* Age of the Art
* What style they have chosen
* Why it is done in a particular way

The age of the art, the style or why a particular way means nothing, why; if it worked back then in an uncivil environment, it has no reason not to work these days. The reason why some techniques dont work today is because caucasians are generally built larger than the mongoloids and thus have a thicker beef armour. What worked with little guys just needs modification when fighting big guys.

[gong fu]

Because they're jealous of the way MMA guys wipe the floor with them perhaps?

hey man those "kung fu" fighters that represent our styles in shit like UFC are weak they do not study real gong fu they just learn the fighting style badly, i dont personally think mma's are crappy fighters but i do think alot of them train like pussies, they train like sportmen not fighters, but yeah mma is alright not a fighting art but good for entertainment like WWF was when you was a kid,

(watch the mma's start getting offended but seriously you train light compared to eastern fighters wheres the conditioning)

[Hermosa]

Admitting that I am no master of the subject. But I always thought that Chinese martial arts answer to the MMA bandwagon was San Shou. You know, that Cung Le guy. And, honestly...I thought it was pretty weak. The strikes resemble nothing like true TCMA. I think that alot of the throws are supposed to be from Shui Chiao..but they don't really resemble that either.

Looks like some poorly trained judoka and thaiboxers with no ground work.

Seriously..it seems like "Aliveness" is the only real truth. And once you really work with aliveness..what you do ends up looking alot like some aspect of MMA.

It is my true belief, that if some one, some where, had some real good material...they would've come forward and kicked some ass by now.

[blitz]

Ok you people have to understand that one art alone can't counter EVERYTHING, you need to mix up everything you need to think OUTSIDE OF THE BOX. "There is no superior art" - Paul Vunak. He uses everything from thaiboxing to tai chi to wing chun, and I seriously beleive that noone in the UFC or Pride can beat him. Kung fu is a great art, you just have to keep up with the new arts, it was made to counter the arts of the time of kung fu, it worked well at that time, new arts show up everyday with new styles, and if you keep training your art the same you wont be able to counter this new art no matter how bad it is.

[jubaji]

Paul Vunak. He uses everything from thaiboxing to tai chi to wing chun, and I seriously beleive that noone in the UFC or Pride can beat him. .

Then he must be pretty dumb to pass up all those $ millions he could be making.


................

[BoarSpear]

Then he must be pretty dumb to pass up all those $ millions he could be making.


................

Paul is most definatly not about money, and i doubt he could detune his instinctive reactions for the ring even if he wanted to...

Besides the fact only the truly sick and twisted would enjoy watchin Paul In a fight. (so where do i get tickets?)

[jubaji]

i doubt he could detune his instinctive reactions for the ring even if he wanted to...

Gimme a break.......

[BoarSpear]

Gimme a break.......

If you dont understand that concept, you dont understand martial arts becoming a reflex, by the time your eyes see and hole and your brain picks a technique to respond its too late...if however you work off of body feel and position of the attacker you react to his potential attacks,you CANNOT nor should you seek to override that type of training. Have you ever trained with Paul? or are you just basing your opinion on your experiences in the civilian sector of martial arts?

[jubaji]

the shit of the bull, it smells not good I say!

martial arts becoming a reflex, by the time your eyes see and hole and your brain picks a technique to respond its too late...if however you work off of body feel and position of the attacker you react to his potential attacks,

Yeah, yeah I believe I understand all that stuff at least as well as you do.

Nonetheless, what you wrote is clearly just classic "too deadly for the ring" bullshit.

[BoarSpear]

Yeah, yeah I believe I understand all that stuff at least as well as you do.

Nonetheless, what you wrote is clearly just classic "too deadly for the ring" bullshit.

Yeah Yeah, I know, you dont believe any Special Forces h2h instructor has a snowballs chance in hell in a fight with a college wrestler.

We cant ALL be college wrestlers dude, some of us grew up and became soldiers guess what?? There really are some things about fighting that soldiers learn and civilians dont usually grasp.

However for the most part i will agree the self defense capability is usually better in a wrestling club than the average dojo.

[jubaji]

Yeah Yeah, I know, you dont believe any Special Forces h2h instructor has a snowballs chance in hell in a fight with a college wrestler.
.

I don't think I said that!


I think you were implying that the super-duper h2h2f2f2b instructor is such a living killing machine that he could never control himself enough to fight a professional fighter without reflexively ripping his opponent's heart out only to show it to him (and take a big bite out of it) before he died.