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In the days of chuck norris karate tournaments where first to 3 points or K.O. They were full contact no pads. Then some party pooper got killed and they made it light to no contact with pads.
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Originally posted by StraightBlaster
Thats true sean, but its still mainly in japan. Most karate outside of japan seems to still be the wussy 'tag' version. Outside of japan for every full contact karate tournment you see, you see ten crappy tap tournaments.
Newertheless, when you browse through the result lists of the Kyukushinkai Open Tournament in Japan you'll see that surprisingly many Europeans got pretty far. And not necessarily because they were bigger. There was a guy called F. Jensen - from Denmark I think - who did pretty well, just to mention one. Don't tell me those guys fight any different at home - or teach their students to fight any different.
Not that I like the Kyukushinkai rules though. I think the board breaking is nonsense and has nothing to do with fighting.Comment
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Not sure about Shotokan but Kenpo apparently originally had some groundwork in it but it got taken out because Ed Parker hated matwork.
IMHO, I don't think Shotokan had any matwork - it would have been redundant. When Gichin Funakoshi introduced Karate to Japan, Judo was widely practiced so teaching throws and matwork within Shotokan would have been nonsensical.Comment
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Once you try bjj no other ground work is worth taking in my opinion..Comment
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except that bjj doesnt teach any type or form of punches or kicks, and when it does finally go to the ground then they limit themselves even more by not engaging in the upper body only! this is really holds barred not no holds barred. if you want a complete up and down all ranges art then go with shooto or even go to the evolution of shooto which is erik paulson's CSW combat submission wrestling. the philosophy of shooto is KICK, PUNCH, THROW, SUBMIT. ALL RANGES. so to all you bjj guys, watch out for leg locks, punches, kicks and any other NON restricting NON limiting arsenal.Comment
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but if you mix em up.. it's good..
we are talking mix martial arts here.. so ..
but i wouldn't do some bjj on the street.. i dont want to be on my back on the street.. that's for sure..Comment
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I think BJJ trained in T-shirt and shorts, excluding all neck & spinal cranks, windpipe chokes, and leglocks, would be the best way to learn groundfighting from a self-defense perspective. In a real fight I sure wouldn't want to break someone's neck or spine, or leg, or choke them to death! But all other submissions are fine in my opinion, so that'd be how I'd train if I could!
crazyjoe380, the whole point is if you train grappling you shouldn't be the one staying on the bottom!
I do BJJ and I'll admit one of the WORST problems with BJJ is people become too comfortable with fighting from the bottom, and often end up preferring the bottom to more dominant positions! No matter what your grappling style is, in my opinion, you should always be looking for dominant position, not the guard or half-guard, cause in reality they are inferior and training that way is only training bad habits!
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If you know how to choke you also know how to choke without killing the opponent. I have often used chokes to subdue stronger opponents. Simply choking and telling them calmly that if they want to breathe again they should stop resisting.
In any case they don't have much power to resist with. Then you let them breathe again. If they start resisting again you shut them off. Sometimes it is the only way to control people who are on drugs or have consumed large amounts of alcohol because they do not feel pain the same way you'd normally do.Comment
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"I think BJJ trained in T-shirt and shorts, excluding all neck & spinal cranks, windpipe chokes, and leglocks, would be the best way to learn groundfighting from a self-defense perspective. In a real fight I sure wouldn't want to break someone's neck or spine, or leg, or choke them to death!"
You've obviously never fought for your life. I would think that these techniques would be the ONLY submissions worth training. If there's not a need to fight to the death, THEN DON'T FIGHT!Comment
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you never know when you might need that type of skill ^^^ better to know it then not to know it.. then you control it when you want it.Comment
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NEWSFLASH!!! - Most fights are NOT a matter of life or death. Usually just a matter of winning or losing, and hurting or being hurt.Originally posted by Bri Thai
"I think BJJ trained in T-shirt and shorts, excluding all neck & spinal cranks, windpipe chokes, and leglocks, would be the best way to learn groundfighting from a self-defense perspective. In a real fight I sure wouldn't want to break someone's neck or spine, or leg, or choke them to death!"
You've obviously never fought for your life. I would think that these techniques would be the ONLY submissions worth training. If there's not a need to fight to the death, THEN DON'T FIGHT!
2ND NEWSFLASH!!! The techniques I excluded from preference are LESS EFFECTIVE in reality than the techniques I'm fine with!
BJJ didn't used to have ANY of those techniques, yet it kicked the ass of all such systems that DID back in the day.
You train all the neck & spinal cranks you want, and I'll consider visiting you in jail when you're charged for murder, supposing you actually managed to use them to effect!
As for you crazyjoe380, there's an old saying: "You fight as you train." In an adrenalised fight state, you'll use what comes most natural to you.Last edited by Ice Phoenix; 10-15-2002, 10:09 AM.Comment
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^^^
I BEG TO DIFFER ON THAT STATEMENT ABOUT MOST FIGHTS ARE NOT LIFE OR DEATH.. LOL
HAVE YOU BEEN TO LOS ANGELES?
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LOL @ crazyjoe380
As a matter of fact I have been to Los Angeles. Luckily I didn't get into any trouble, but there sure are some mean-looking scary mother****ers around in some parts!
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"NEWSFLASH!!! - Most fights are NOT a matter of life or death. Usually just a matter of winning or losing, and hurting or being hurt."
Really? Perhaps you should learn to grow up if you're having fights for such silly reasons. Especially since you may well one day come up against someone who doesn't realise that you're not really fighting.......
NEWSFLASH 3!!!! You're a tosser.Comment
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If you had half a clue you'd know most fights start due to VERY silly reasons. You'd also know the intent of individuals involved is usually to just "beat down" the other, rather than kill or permanently disable that individual, and be severely punished by the laws of the place where most of us live - modern society.Originally posted by Bri Thai
"NEWSFLASH!!! - Most fights are NOT a matter of life or death. Usually just a matter of winning or losing, and hurting or being hurt."
Really? Perhaps you should learn to grow up if you're having fights for such silly reasons. Especially since you may well one day come up against someone who doesn't realise that you're not really fighting.......
NEWSFLASH 3!!!! You're a tosser.
Since you're so eager to begin childish name calling, I'll reply with an appropriate come-back: "No, you are!"
Last edited by Ice Phoenix; 10-15-2002, 04:32 PM.Comment
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