(( Complete Martial Art ))

[punk000]

Originally posted by crazyjoe380
the ones that are useless are the ones not in your path..


*places pinky ring finger in air*

what do you mean by this?

[blade_cs]

Re: about the hapkido question (long)

Originally posted by ryanhall
i posted this in the contemporary fighting arts forum:

i say no, but you decide (long and opinionated) October 15 2002, 4:29 PM

tony,
i studied hapkido for a couple months and i was not impressed. all those "locks and throws" that hapkido types love seem to fall apart under pressure. hell, they're hard enough to pull off when someone's letting you do it to them. wouldn't it be great if everybody you ever got into a confrontation with just grabbed your wrist and stood there to let you slap the joint lock from hell on them? sadly, i don't think that happens too often.

the place i trained at didn't even spar for god's sake. they said something in the order of: "these things are too dangerous for sparring." translation: you will never pull them off when someone is trying to hit you, but we don't want you to know that. i don't want to start a big thing about this, but if "clean tactics" such as standing wrist locks and arm bars were so effective, they would be used in the ufc or similar events. shamrock shoots! oh, no, he's caught in the deadly thumb lock of doom! it's all over folks, maybe next year for mr. shamrock. in my experience, these things just don't work--even for people with years of experience. why do bjj's armlocks, wrist twists, etc. work? they are grounded and stabalized. the same wrist lever taht will make you bend over in annoyance whilst standing will separate your hand from your arm when you are grappling on the ground.

next, forget about the catching punches that they do. if someone wants to step into a solid front stance and throw a reverse punch at your chest, maybe you have a chance, but if you leave your samurai armor at home, i doubt anybody'll try it. also, don't forget to pull out that x-block if someone tries to gore you with a katana. but wait! that's a great move against a knife too! even when the 'master' is 'cut' every time he tries it at half speed, it remains an unimpeachable tenent of the style.

worst of all, the jerk running the place had 3 or 4 women who weighed no more than 110 lbs walking around thinking they could drop a 250 lb assailant with a wrist twist or a pressure point strike. frankly, for that, i think the 'master' needed his head bounced off a sidewalk. repeatedly.

i don't know...maybe i'm a little bitter about the place because none of the black belts had ever sparred a round in their lives, would have slim or no chance of protecting themselves against a schoolyard bully--they are all in their late 20s--(yet they would lecture endlessly on the effectiveness or this or that 'hand technique'), and every time i questioned (respectfully) anything, the 'master' would get all pissed and start saying that i was disloyal or disrespectful for questioning him. in the end, i got fed up with the place, did some research, found CFA/sammy, and never looked back.

my honest opinion: if it's practical self defense you're looking for, stay far away from hapkido. at least if it at all resembles what i just told you about. you would be much better off buying some quality books and tapes and reading/watching them. the things above were more than enough for me to never want to go back to that school or ever refer anybody interested in self defense to anything like it.

here's a quick warning bell: if someone says, "this technique doesn't come over night. it takes years and years of practice to be able to use this," RUN. you don't want to be proficient in something in 10 years, you want it now. "excuse me mr. mugger, can you come back in, say, 10 or 15 years? i'm not quite ready for you at the moment." as far as i can tell from my own limited experience and the vast experience of others on this board it is generally the simplest things that work the best, and a legitimate self defense tool or technique should be working reasonable well 5 minutes after you are introduced to it. everything sammy has taught me has made total sense and i have been able to pick up and use right away. that should probably be your measure. well, sorry for being long-winded. i hope i helped.

ryan

Since you say that Hapkido is so ineffective, can you explain why police officers and military personell train in this martial art?

I mean, if it was a bad art, then officers wouldn't be able to use it. Not all of the thugs allow the officer to simply slap on the cuffs; they resist the arrest.

[Szczepankiewicz]

In my experience in the military (1990-1992) all the hand to hand being taught is a joke. However, since I got out, they have made inroads into more effective systems. So I have no idea how effective it might be now.

My brother in law is stationed in San Diego in the Corps. He is currently undergoing the composite training for self defense they are teaching. He is unimpressed. But, then again, if it doesn't have a V8 or a set of 34 C's, then he is USUALLY unimpressed.

Hapkido, like all other arts, is a composition of various techniques, body mechanics, tactics, and strategies. Simply because there are crappy schools and crappy teachers, doesn't mean the art is invalid.

If you have true questions concerning practical applications of Hapkido, ask someone who knows it well.

As for The Godfathers statements, do not question the master, question the self and draw your own conclusions.... FOOL!

SZ

[ryanhall]

blade,
i never said it was a particularly bad art. just not for me. i found the knife defenses to be ridiculous and dangerous, and the empty hand techniqes to be inefficient. writs locks are totally useless when someone who is capable decides to resist in earnet. if anything, they are useful for controlling someone once you have their hands behind their back--so as to apply the cuffs. you don't see police trying to grab someone's arm and lock it when they run, do you? you see them tackle the sob. also, though there are exceptions, you don't really see people resisting arrest violently without a weapon. most cops don't get the hand to hand necessary to deal with a weapon, and i would surmise, probably do not expect to survive a edged weapon. the most common thing that stabbed police officers say is: "i thought it was an fuking punch." as a result, they are taught to stay 25 feet back from someone with a knife. it takes the average man 1.2 seconds to cross 20 feet, and nothing short of a central nervous system shot will stop someone for certain.

locks and holds are for people who can't hit back--cops. as you may know, leo's get some of the worst training around. according to those in the know, today's military hand to hand training is largely garbage. note: i am NOT calling bjj/gjj garbage, just inappropriate for the military's needs. it does, however, help to develop an "in your face" mindset that is critical to combat success. at the end of ww II, the militaries of the western powers had a very good system put together. however, political correctness has taken it from "destroy and move on" to "restraing the man who is trying to bite out your jugular." do some research on it. you'll probably find it interesting.

finally, Szczepankiewicz,
i DID question myself. i found that what i was learning was garbage, and i moved on. secondly, the "master" was trained by a very well-respected member of the hapkido community who will remain nameless for the purposes of this post. i can tell you that neither my teacher nor his was no fighter. i believe that, in order to teach properly, one needs to have real world experience. without it, everything you do is guesswork that can get you or your students injured/killed. it is grossly irresponsible. back in the day, arts didn't contain 10,000 techniques. this is just used to entice the public. one technique mastered is better than one hundred sampled.

a little note: wrist locks, pressure point strikes, etc. are FINE MOTOR SKILLS. these deteriorate under adrenal stress--doesn't even take a lot of stress. at the same time, gross motor skills a la the muay thai knee or a headbutt are increased. in real life, combat doesn't come down to flawlessly-executed flying armbars and the like. it comes down to who wants it more. most guys can't even throw a decent punch when the sh!t hits the fan. you will be a different person in the ring than you will at 2 am outside a bar. try to understand this.

i hope i explained my position. i apologize for being long winded