weapons crossroad

[DeSeRt RaT]

Originally posted by ryanhall


he's right. a lot of people think that since a stick has similarities to all weapons that training with it will make them functional with a knife. they are wrong. you can't learn edge control from a stick. also, you might as well train with a rubber knife since it will be hard to get your hands on a gun at age 16. just a thought.

ryan

I disagree and agree. Your right that to train knife skills you have to use a knife.

But saying you dont learn edge control from sticks is incorrect. It depends how you train. I do Kali where you do knife and stick drills seperatly and together. With the stick you do cuts just like you would a knife. Nearly all the double stick drills could be replaced by knives. Same principles, different ranges.

[platinum_angel]

i see that most people voted guns training instead of stick and bo(hope you all thought bo also referred to stick sorry i did not specify) or knifes. could you tell me why guns are the cardinal decision.

[ryanhall]

i think gun training is important, but knives are the most common carry by anyone from a street criminal to joe average. a knife could also be a screwdriver, pen, etc. gun training is a lot harder to come by. shooting is a highly perishable skill that takes a lot of time at the range to maintain. gun training goes way beyond just learning to take one away from someone.

why did everybody rate guns as #1? i'm interested too.


ryan

[Szczepankiewicz]

Why does anyone do anything? Take into account that what most people know about guns they learn from the mass media be it Tom Brokaw or Michael Moore or some hypocritical movie gang.

Guns are simple, yet the use of a gun in a tense situation explodes in complexity beyond what most people realize.

I went with sticks because they are commmonly found and easy to use. You can also control the lethal force much easier than with a knife or gun. You REALLY have to want to kill someone when you use a stick.*

[midnight]

I want to add my 2 cents. Guns what training do you need?

I spend six months training with various firearms from a 9mm to an Uzi and a fully automatic assault rifle and thought I was pretty good. Took my wife to the range she never held a gun in her hand before that and she shot 452 out of 500 why? a gun works just as good if you point it in the right direction then if you take 20 secs to aim if you hit a human he will know about it doesn’t matter were you hit him/her its only in the movies where jean clueless can stand up and fight after being shot 5 times

[Szczepankiewicz]

Aren't you an LEO?

Are you saying that there is not a difference between being at the range with lots of time shooting at paper targets and being nose to nose with someone trying to commit bodily harm?


Peyton Quinn has some good scenario based training on this exact issue. He describes it well in his book Real Fighting

Quinn describes the attack of the bulletman where they are about 20 feet away and the defender attempts to draw a holstered sidearm and fire two shots center mass on the rushing bulletman.

Even experienced LEOs and Range Monkeys who shoot competitions found out that this wasn't as easy as it seemed.

Then of course, you have the whole mental restrictions on actually shooting another human being.

But this is all second hand info for me, I haven't shot anyone yet.

Szczepankiewicz

[midnight]

sz please have a look under my previos post
In How many of you would honestly say you could kill someone? Give me scenerios....
I still will stand by the piont that 97% of all people that carry a gun legal or not have never had any training yet they still kill people and they hit there target 8/10 that why i asked what training will you do to improve your chances of this ?

[Szczepankiewicz]

Oh shit, here come the statistics...


Listen up you grit-fed, BBQ eatin' hillbilly! Speakin' of... is Georgia BBQ as good as Alabama BBQ?


I seriously speculate that the 97% and 8/10 came right out of thin air..


Don't get me wrong, I often carry a gun, it's legal in ID as long as you have a hunting license and it's not concealed. However, for 'offensive purposes' it is much easier to draw and shoot if that was your intent all the time. Defensively, however, it's not that easy. Shooting at the range and shooting on 'the street' are not the same, don't you agree?

Do we need to send the Yankees back down theah?

Sz

[yenhoi]

You train with guns and against guns so that when the adrenaline hits and someone is pointing one in your direction you can think and act. This is much harder and very unlikely if you are unfamiliar with guns.

Same with a stick.

Same with a knife.

If you do not train something, you are at a massive disadvantage when the shit hits the fan.

[midnight]

LMAO at SZ

[Szczepankiewicz]

I take it from your strategic dodge of my question, Georgia BBQ is NOT as good as that from Alabama!

[midnight]

Hey hell no ya all them there alabamaians dont no nutting about BBQ-

SZ I am not native Georgian hell not even American so I dont know but in GA its good as long as you like it with biscuits and gravy or deep fried

[platinum_angel]

i agree with both the shiz and mid.

you don't really need training with the gun but it is best to because you get the feel of disarming and defending yourself. the more you familiarize yourself with the weapon the more of a chance you got defending yourself against an attack.

and adrenaline also will affect your shooting and you will not be able to shoot as good as you thought you could. but if you are trained in gun you might be able to control yourself.

hell's BBQ is the best.

[Szczepankiewicz]

My whole point was that you DO indeed need some sort of training with a gun to be effective in a Tactical self defense situation. Maybe not 'professional' training per say, but you do have to put yourself through possible scenarios.

Allow me to reiterate: Shooting at static paper targets at a fixed range does not prepare you for a dynamic aggressor bent on ending your life.

LEOs go through this type of training all the time and they STILL manage to mess up from time to time.

I know that I have major adrenalin rushes when I am in tense situations. As a Yute, I experienced muscle convulsions when engaged in a fight. My adversary took this as fear. He soon found out that it was not fear at all. Since then I have done a lot of research and training to help control this and I am a long way off from being where I would like to be. Cool. Cool like Fonzie....


Yeah, I know the mechanics of a firearm. Yeah, I know how to load, fire, correct misfires, etc.... And I'm a pretty decent shot. However, drawing a weapon and successfully disarming/killing an aggressor actively attacking you and then facing the social/psychological/legal consequences is another story altogether.

Now, given a stick, I can defend myself to a comparable degree without getting myself killed and/or going to prison. Smacking a guy a couple of times with a pool cue is easier to explain than smacking them a few times with a 140 grain hollow-point. Not as difinitive, yet easier to explain.

So, less sum up:
1) Sticks are usually readily available.
2) Sticks are usually exposed (i.e. not sheathed or holstered)
3) Sticks are legally more permissable than a knife or gun.
4) And, if my stick proves to be insufficient, THEN I will pull my sidearm and dispatch multiple rounds at a suitable range.

So if you want to train in a weapon, in the dojo, my first choice would be a stick, second choice would be a pistol, third choice would be a knife, fourth and final choice would be to enlist the help of the Godfather, Don Guiseppe and you will find that your enemies disappear....

Spanky

[midnight]

So SZ
What do you eat in Idaho except potatoes?