You Have Seen It!

[Guest]

You Have Seen It With Karate!

You Have Seen It With Judo!

You Have Seen It With TaeKwondo!


Fighting arts turned into sports. Dangerous techniques and tactics taken out! Sport techniques and tactics put in! So much so that you end up with an art that could put you in a worse position in a real fight than if you had never studied anything at all.

Well, guess what fight fans?





















YOU'RE GRADUALLY SEEING THE SAME WITH BRAZILLIAN JIU JITSU AS WELL!


Remember. You heard it first from the Bri Thai.

[ryanhall]

actually, tae kwon do just dropped out of the sky and was never a battle art, but a korean pride thing. old school judo was a lot like bjj today. a fair amount of striking. good stuff. too bad it's gone down hill

[robertlee]

Any art that deturs away from the original base training will suffer. AS the jutsu training headed towards the DO < way >. Combat training was reduced. As some arts left there host country the translation was lost on some key tools. Today more people are getting intrested in real training. Thats just bringing the past back for some arts. And testing others. The school, thats where the difference has to start. Some people just want a little some want to really learn to fight. Two ways The choice is what you want and where to find it. Then you have to be able to use the tools. Any style or mix that serves your needs . Is all started in where you train and how well you develop. Each person represents there path to what they can do. TRAIN for your way. That is the karate. kung fu judo. M/T MMa JKD . In the end you are all that makes up your art.

[MrPoopy]

What do you mean "gradually"? It's all grappling. Not exactly street lethal stuff.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Please provide some examples.

[BlackSnow]

It's really a pity that's these baeutiful arts turned into sports. I wish i could learn the original art and just go to far easten. I hope that there will be a school in my Town which will teach the original style very soon. hé, everbody may have his dreams.... B.S.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Please provide some examples.

Look at the techniques. Look at the rules. It is about scoring points. Changing positions (i.e. from Mount to Knee on position etc, just to tot points up). And like someone said, purely grappling.

Look at the increasing marketing of it. See the reputedly silly Self Defence Book by Royce. No, I haven't seen it, but I have not seen anything good about it from people who's self defence knowledge that I respect.

BJJ is still an effective and wonderful art. But the gradual transformation into a self populising money making venture is taking its' toll on fighting effectiveness.

10 years from now we will be laughing at BJJ Black Belts.

Remember, you heard it here first!

[BlackSnow]

sombody who learned the art from the art original country against somebody who learned the art in the Western countries...who will win?...Exactly

I think the Western has to much proud on this one and do not want to admit that it never can be as good as them in the Far Eastern countries. It's their lifestyle. Do we serious think we can learn all the moves etc in some years while they are practicing the art their whole life? B.S.

[ryanhall]

NOTE: BJJ is a western art, and many of the Gracie family's schools are in the United States. You heard it HERE first

[ryanhall]

I think the Western has to much proud on this one and do not want to admit that it never can be as good as them in the Far Eastern countries. It's their lifestyle. Do we serious think we can learn all the moves etc in some years while they are practicing the art their whole life? B.S.

Huh? I'll take a decent western boxing pro over a super black belt karate master from the East any day. The number of techniqes is not very important. I don't want to generalize, but someone from a foreign land who practices a martial art for his entire life in the peace of the dojo is likely not nearly as tough as an inner city kid from a rough neighborhood in America (or any other nation for that matter). Westerners win competitions in the East all the time. Sure, Sakuraba beat a couple Gracies, but how many Eastern Kung Fu masters did they choke out of consciousness before people started studying their methods like the bible?

[BlackSnow]

I never said that we are not able to learn the style and become better. I meant that if we ceteris paribus practice a style for 5 years we cannot take up to someone who ceteris paribus practice the same style his or her whole life (especially for someone who is trained in the country where the art is designed) and I am not talking about inside the ring but outside. Note the difference. B.S.

[BlackSnow]

p.s. Where does (pure) boxing come from?

[ryanhall]

I never said that we are not able to learn the style and become better. I meant that if we ceteris paribus practice a style for 5 years we cannot take up to someone who ceteris paribus practice the same style his or her whole life (especially for someone who is trained in the country where the art is designed) and I am not talking about inside the ring but outside.

Woah there! I initially misinterpreted what you meant. Thought you were talking about Eastern vs Western arts. My bad. However, skill is not always a function of time, as is evidenced by many of the young fighters (Frank Shamrock for instance) we see today that beat some older, more skilled versions of themselves. If you are talking about skill "outside the ring," then i believe you are falling victim to a very common misconception. Outside the ring, skill does not often become a major factor in the equation. You actually have to work to make it matter, and lots don't know how to do this. Nobody squares off and goes bare knuckle for five rounds like "real men." Super black belts get whooped with fair frequency for thinking they are rough and tumble mo%her fu#kers who owe nothing to nobody. In all fairness, though, so do regular people with this attitude. Their skill in their art does not transfer well to an arena unlike the one they train in. Don't fall into the "i'm good in the ring, so i can beat everyone on the street" trap. It's not good for your health. That said, people at the top of the MMA game will wipe the floor with most all untrained people, but they had better watch it if they run into some real trouble. Thses same guys would also likely clean up on Eastern traditional masters. Forget Chi. Dumb myth. Most Eastern arts are very showy, and their emphasis is not on practicality.

Where does (pure) boxing come from?

Western Boxing (not Savate) originally came from England, i believe. Basically fencing without a sword. It looks nothing today like it did when it started, or even back at the turn of the 20th century. Western boxing as we know it today was really refined in America. It is considered to be a British/American art.

[MrPoopy]

Bri Thai, does this mean that you'll be quitting bjj?

[Guest]

I am very glad that you asked that. I do practice a form of ground grappling that has many BJJ techniques in it. But I practice mainly for self defence. When I am rolling around my main aim is to get into controlling positons (Mount etc.) I do not worry at all about getting submissions as, in a real fight, if I am in the controlling position I am going to use strikes and rather unpleasant ripping attacks to the face and throat.

I also train in old style military Combatives, and would intend to keep on my feet during a fight anyway. My ground grappling trainnig is merely insurance against falling or being taken down.

Don't et me wrong. I don't think that I could beat the current BJJ Black Belts. They are good and standards are high. But the spectre of sport and money making is taking its' toll on BJJ.

Watch what happens.