About Real life 'Street Grappling' (JuJutsu) not for the Ring

[radicus]

Some people mentioned this before. It all comes down to your preference.
If you enjoy striking and it comes easier to you, than it will work for you. Same thing for grappling, some people just enjoy or are naturally better at grappling. I like grappling, I don't enjoy being punched in the face.

[SteveSeagal]

Some people mentioned this before. It all comes down to your preference.
If you enjoy striking and it comes easier to you, than it will work for you. Same thing for grappling, some people just enjoy or are naturally better at grappling. I like grappling, I don't enjoy being punched in the face.

I would vote for doing both, striking and grappling, either 2 or more seperate styles or one that combines both.
For modern self defense situations I believe that it is essential to have a few moves in both ranges.

[JohnnyS]

The problem that I see with using these "deadly" techniques such as eye-gouges, groin-strikes, clawing-the-face etc is two-fold:
1) You're counting on the fact that pain will stop the guy. This is just wrong. People who are drunk, high or motivated will not stop because of a little or even a lot of pain. People who have been stabbed in fights didn't even realise it until after the fight had finished and thought they were just being punched in the chest.
2) Do you really want to use these techniques on someone who pushed you in a bar scuffle? How kindly do you think the law will look upon you for blinding some guy whose drink you accidently spilt? At least with BJJ you've got the training and the options to either finish the fight peacefully i.e. a choke, or use these "deadly" techniques that aren't even guaranteed to finish the fight (see my first point).

As for defending against a weapon, you're likely to not see the weapon whether it's a standup fight or on the ground. At least grappling will give you greater control over the weapon than standing back and trying to exchange blows.

[HtTKar]

This is just wrong. People who are drunk, high or motivated will not stop because of a little or even a lot of pain.

On this, I want to share a story I heard from two state troopers the other day. Sorry about not using names, Hope you understand.

They had a report of a man in a red jacket going through cars and stealing. Rookie cop drives out to find this man, and see's him driving a stolen van from one of the local Well-known stores. Rookie pulls the man over and asks for his registration. The guy in the red jacket plainly said "I'm drunk and have been drinking all day." The Rookie cop already knew the man in the red jacket from previous arrests. Rookie gives the man in the jacket a couple Stupid-Human-Trick-Tests to determine his level of drunkeness. The man in the red jacket failed all of the tests. He couldn't even count to 4 using his fingers. Meanwhile the Seargant showed up, as he is the only person around that is certified to do the breath-a-lizer.

Rookie cop said hey seargant "roy" do you have the breath-a-lizer? At which point the man in the red-jacket said "Roy...I'm gonna kill that motha-fckr" Turned around picked the seargant up and pushed him into the side of the van, off his feet, with arms pinned by his sides. All of a sudden this 6' tall 250lb 30yr old drunk was a very crazy dangerous man. The rookie started trying to pull the drunk off, but couldnt budge him. Rookie couldnt even hurt him with punches. Both men together had a hard time and actually had to pull pepper-spray on him. Well, this didn't work either. They used 2 cans of pepper-spray on this fat drunk, with no affect, and fortunatly, together were able to get some handcuffs on this guy. He still fought back headbutting and kicking. This guy was in full rage.
They threw him in the copcar and he kicked the window frames out. He fought at the police-station spreading pepper-spray everywhere. Everytime someone had to wrestle him they would get covered in pepper spray.

Fortunatly there were 2 cops on one guy, both were sober, both were large guys over 6' tall, both over 200lbs, and both had been trained to handle situations like this. However, the seargant still had to go to the hospital for injuries. He had a bruise in the exact shape of his radio that was stuck between him and the van, and was deeply bruised from shoulder to knee.

Now this guy is in prison again. But it goes to show how quick a situation like this can happen and how few options you might actually have if ever put in that situation. Best to use everything you've got.

[FJJ828]

It always amazes me to read all of the tired excuses for not training the ground.

"You don't want to be there." - No Sh!t.

"I'll never be taken down, fall down, etc." - mmmmkay.

"I'll just gouge his eyes, rake his face, grab his balls, break his fingers, etc" ...and then what?

BTW, Christian Montes is dead on. Some of you are really lost.

[IPON]

1) You're counting on the fact that pain will stop the guy. This is just wrong.

I don't think it is simply an issue of causing intense pain. To reduce the field of vision or use of a limb is of strategic advantage for you. Yes, in most cases pain or shock from damage or loss of an eye will suffice but if not you adversary is compromised. There are no guarantees to SD but it may buy time for an escape and reduce your injury.

2) Do you really want to use these techniques on someone who pushed you in a bar scuffle? How kindly do you think the law will look upon you for blinding some guy whose drink you accidently spilt?

This is actually a good point but has nothing to do about technique or style, it is more philosophical. I believe this has more to do with moral training. There is a process of escalation and the first is to de-escalate the situation. Then IF force is needed one should not go over. I can use a standing arm bar to break and arm but if the restraint is enough to make the other person realize "OK this need to stop now" fight over I don't break the arm because I feel like it or to prove a point (although there are situations you may have to).

[GrayGhost]

I agree with HuSanYan. When I started my BJJ it was apperant to me that the majority of the moves are sport moves. In that they require the other person to tap out. No one taps out in a bar fight. You go till you put the other person in the hospital. And fighting on the ground is that last pplace you want to go with five of your opponents buddies around you. That's why I compliment my BJJ with Kickboxing.

[JohnnyS]

Grayghost,
Are you aware that in a streetfight, people don't tap? If you learn BJJ and you armbar someone in the street that you would actually break the arm, not wait for the tap? Please tell me you're not that naive?

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Important distinction

Everyone makes some good points, there is a big difference between sport bjj and street fighting, but these distinctions are also made at the top of the bjj world, ie-Royce Gracie, Rigan Machado, ect. Bjj will give you a good overall feel for groundfighting, but you should adapt your techniques to the situation and above all, use common sense.

[GrayGhost]

JohnnyS you f*ckin' illiterate idiot. Did you actually read my entire post or just the first line. Did I not say that the majority of the moves in BJJ require a tap and you don't tap out in a bar fight. I said in a fight you fight till someone goes to the hospital, therefore you can't use the majority of the moves in BJJ in the street because they require a tap. There for it is not useful to use BJJ in a bar fight. I also said that the ground is that last place you want to be in a bar so I said I'm complementing my BJJ with kickboxing. So I can use the kickboxing in a fight, cause I said I don't want to go to the ground and try and make someone tap cause it won't work. Read my post again. cause you obviously didn't read the whole thing the first time.

[jubaji]

I said in a fight you fight till someone goes to the hospital, therefore you can't use the majority of the moves in BJJ in the street because they require a tap. .

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[Ronson]

GrayGhost,

You can tap from a barrage of strikes too, but WTF does that have to do in streetfights? In street application of BJJ you just break the joint, put someone to sleep, and/or maintain position and strike - if you wait or let someone tap to stop the fight, then you got problems (in the head). Just b/c you're using BJJ in the street, doesn't mean that you're deciding to take the fight to the ground - you can use your grappling abilites (BJJ, wrestling, sambo, judo, etc.) to stay away from the ground, maintain dominant position (standing, ground, and every range in between), and neutralize your opponents offensive.

Also don't be so quick to have a hissy fit when someone challenges the "talking points" in your post - just try to respond in an intelligent manner

[areusafe]

You're counting on the fact that pain will stop the guy. This is just wrong. People who are drunk, high or motivated will not stop because of a little or even a lot of pain.

Ahhhhh PAIN...

Let's consider "Worst Case" situation. Attacker is a 300 lb. male, BLITZED on Angel Dust, FEELS NO PAIN, has the useable strength of 10 to 12 men AND has no moral compunction against crippling maiming or killing you.

That is a BASIC premise in my 1/2 day workshops.

BTW the projected victim is a 95 lb. "naked" female stepping out of the shower with no weapons or tools available.

This tends to negate many accepted martial arts techniques.
Respectfully,

[jubaji]

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[adacas]

BJJ has a very special place in my heart. Right on the bottom. You know the floor where it get's kinda dirty. BJJ is great for when you get into a bar fight and your so drunk that you can't stand up so you have no choice but to stay on the ground. Do you absolutley need it for everyday life. Hell no. Take up kajukenbo or kenpo or something. You'll get your stand up game in gear. And not one of those little frilly schools either. Also if you happen to use BJJ you end up breaking something on the dude...period. Either punching the hell out of him, breaking a bone or joint or even head butting him until his face looks like ground beef. Who needs a tap when you can wait for something to snap. The one thing I do like about BJJ guys is that when you knock em down they have this habit of taking you down with them and thats not a bad thing considering after you get knocked down with them it kinda buys them time to get up. At least until a couple of buddies comes walking by to stomp the dude in the head. i like scenarios when i can be a naked 95 pound female.