Desire, Athleticism or Skill.

[Joe Manco]

All right, Ronin

No flaming this time.

But meditate on the gem I tossed to you for at least an hour concerning the Royce fight:

There was no winner in that fight ... until he quit.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Hitchahard]

Desire will bring-out athleticism and skill.

[Jimmy23]

Ian ,desire is essential(as a fighter you know this),but let me add this.You also need enough desire to be humble and learn new ways to train and to fight.You also need enough desire to know when to back off of an injury and work around it,rather than try to stubborn your way through and get hurt really bad.Also,to know when to avoid overtraining yet to still stay conditioned.I think many fighters have a little too much desire on the physical side and not enough on the mental side.Just my opinion though.

[Ronin]

Joe:

Understood, but I really don't see what else he could have done. With no base, beating a fighter of Sakuraba's caliber is near-impossible. IMO, Sak won the fight the moment he broke Royce's foot, and I respect Royce for fighting so long beyond that point.

I think Rorion did the right thing. Royce would have gotten destroyed if he had gone back out there in the SEVENTH round! A kick to the head can be lethal, esp. when you're as fragile as Royce.

Perhaps, for once, we can agree to disagree.

[Joe Manco]

Originally posted by Ronin
... With no base, beating a fighter of Sakuraba's caliber is near-impossible ...

The key word here is "near" impossible ... which implies still POSSIBLE. You know what's funny? Of all the things you've ever written, your "former" signature quote was the best, where Luke Skywalker says, "I don't Believe," to which Yoda says, "That is why you fail."

I find it more than mildly amusing how you not only fail to get the gist of your own chosen quote, LOL, but now you have replaced it with another

There is a saying, "You are never beaten until you quit." Yes, we can all search for examples where this seems to pan out untrue, but the point is it REMAINS true. You may get killed, but you are not BEATEN unless you quit. Meditate on this for an hour, Grasshopper.

Stopping an overmatched fight is what the ref is for; it shouldn't be the fighter quitting. Hell, a quitting fighter ISN'T a fighter ... really by definition. He's a non-fighter.

Yet if you look at most NHB fights, what is the deciding factor? Are KOs the most frequent deciding factor? Or in fact is the most frequent deciding factor WHO QUITS?

Therefore, the best way not to lose a fight is not to quit in one. As long as you are conscious, you are dangerous. Anything can happen, and the man who continues to TRY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN can still do so, no matter how slim the odds. Only when he quits does he remove his own chance at victory. Hence the desire to spit in his direction.

Yes, the man who is willing to try until the bitter end may not get the win, but he will be respected a hell of a lot more by his peers and his fans for being carried out on his shield HAVING TRIED TO ... than he would hobbling off in disgrace as a quitter.

Yours truly,

Joe

[L3FTH00K]

You need all three. I believe desire is the most important factor yet it won't make you a superstar in the game.

[Ronin]

Let the pissing contest resume! Actually, I just saw Joe's response, and I didn't want this thread to be buried in all the political rubble.

Joe:

I just watched the WCC for the first time on video. That was the one which featured Renzo Gracie's debut. It was fascinating, like breaking open a time capsule. The level of competition in NHB was much lower in those days, skill-wise, but there were some very game fighters in there.

One guy, Mike Bitonio, was a disciple of Kahluia. You know, the Hawaiian "bone-breaking" art championed by John Matua (cough, cough)? He fought Bart Vale, that big shoot-fighting doofus, and Vale basically man-handled him and beat the crap out of him with head-butts and elbows on the ground. Bitonio basically refused to give up, and managed to reverse Vale TWICE! Not knowing the outcome, I started thinking, "Man! Maybe Pit Dog is really on to something!" Then Bitonio reversed Vale a third time, and started whaling on him from the guard. The crowd was going nuts!

Then, all of a sudden, Bitonio tapped from a head-and-arm choke. Just like that. All of the heart and tenacity he had displayed (and it WAS inspirational), came to nothing, because Vale knew a choke he couldn't counter.

I think, in order to accomplish anything worthwhile in life, you have to FIRST believe that it is possible, as my favorite quote from the Star Wars trilogy illustrates.

But you better have more to back it up than just your heart, or someone's going to rip it out and eat it.

Also, Ray Mancini was ring-side for the event, and was visibly disturbed by the beating Bitonio was taking. That made me wince a little.

And finally, it was Rorion who threw in the towel. Royce had had enough.