Self Defense BJJ

[Lost Ronin]

I am a JKD concepts student who trains in BJJ. I focus on self defense methodology and self preservation skills. Picture this scenario: You get into a street fight with a larger opponent. He shoots, you end up on your back looking up at this really large, really pissed off man who wants to pound your face into the ground, what would you do? What moves, or strategies would you employ? What if he might have buddies around the area? Please answer honestly, thanks.

[Kingston]

first i would try to get the f@$# up as fast as possible.

i think if you "let"it go to the ground you've already done a lousy job at self preservation. Of course there are always times when going to the ground would be inevitable.

everyone should know some ground stuff, and feel comfortable with there abilities on the ground. If they want to have a good handle on self defence that is.

i dont currently take bjj and im not to familiar with ground submisions....so im not to familiar with all the options that would be available on the ground.

all i can say is getting him in an armbar is great.....until his friend starts crakin your unprotected head with a bear bottle, or the guy uses his free arm and pulls a knife out of his poket and starts "going to work" on your legs, wrists, or whatever else he can reach.....he gets a broken arm......you get a severd artery and bleed to death.

one thing to say though, is, dont start to struggle with him, go with his movements roll out of them or whatever you have to do, and try not to get pined down, and do it before his friends get there.

lol but then again ground work did just fine in the UFC lol

[Graciefan]

I read this article by a Brian Kodi that did a pretty good job of explaining this.

The tittle's a no brainer - "Weakness of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu"

[Builderofmuscle]

There was a post on that on planetjubei.com. It was a post on how to fight a bigger guy.

http://planetjubei.com/mazone/index.phtml?page=db_view&db_name=strats&id=302

[ryanhall]

I want to preface my response with this: I am not insulting any of the previous posters. Here goes:

Anyone who tries to answer this question in the format you requested is wrong. Dead wrong. The only reasonable answer is "it depends." What did you do to make this guy so mad? Do you think he wants to kill you, or is he just trying to look cool in front of his buddies? Does he have a weapon? Do you have a weapon? Do you have friends? Are the cops likely to intervene? What kind of clothing are you wearing? What clothes is he wearing? Whose "turf" are you on? See where this is going? I doubt you'll be happy with my answer, but that's just the way it is.

You get into a street fight with a larger opponent. He shoots, you end up on your back looking up at this really large, really pissed off man who wants to pound your face into the ground, what would you do? What moves, or strategies would you employ? What if he might have buddies around the area?

My analysis: you're f#cked. Badly. You have already screwed up badly by this point. The only thing that will get you out of this situation is your mind. Physical skills don't mean sh!t here. You'll do what you have to do, and it's not going to be pretty. You should ask yourself why you are in this situation. Why did you piss him off so badly, especially in front of his friends? Why didn't you hit first?

Something to ALWAYS remember: physical skills are the smallest, repeat smallest part of personal protection.

[Tory]

1) Ryanhall, I agree with you %100. Spread your knees, bend over and kiss your ass goodbye if it gets to that point!

2)Like kingston said, armbars are great, but if you get in a position to do it, bring his tricep to your armpit and kick your legs out from underneath you. By doing so it will, at the minimun, rip his shoulder out of socket. then he is f&*%ed

[Ice Phoenix]

Lost Ronin: The question you asked is far too unspecific. What position are you in? What position is he in, in relation to you? Etc, etc. Get solid experience in BJJ and eventually you'll be able to best react in such a situation, even though the best reaction might not save you.

Kingston: Stop bashing BJJ you dick. You admit to having no clue on the ground and yet are talking out of your ass. Grow a brain.

ryanhall: Excluding the "physical skills don't mean shit here" comment, you are completely right.

Tory: That move would not work against a larger guy.

Lost Ronin, just remember that most of the posters on this forum are not BJJ people, so take what they say regarding it lightly.

[ryanhall]

ryanhall: Excluding the "physical skills don't mean shit here" comment, you are completely right.

Actually, I am completely right. Your American arm bar or a knowledge of the spider guard will not get you out of this situation. The physical tool you use is incidental because the situation is never the same twice. What will determine your survival are the tactical choices you make. Physical only comes into play as a result of these choices, and again, only if you choose correctly.

[akja]

Originally posted by ryanhall


Actually, I am completely right. Your American arm bar or a knowledge of the spider guard will not get you out of this situation. The physical tool you use is incidental because the situation is never the same twice. What will determine your survival are the tactical choices you make. Physical only comes into play as a result of these choices, and again, only if you choose correctly.

It dosen't matter what "choices" you make right or wrong, if you can't "physically"carry them out.

Your "choices" theory is dependant on "physically being able to perform the task. Also I know many martial artist with a lot of experience that don't hardly train that much anymore.

So if they make the right choice, but can't physically perform the task. Then how safe will they be?

[yenhoi]

Not true ryanhall:

You do the same things as always - move!, destroy his structure, move into a dominant position, and destroy or otherwise 'finish' opponent. There is a common factor in any encounter I will be in - me, and I will act in that manner regardless of the size of my opponent or what range me and the badguy are in - ground or otherwise.

-For example, for the original poster, who might be looking for actual techniques for some reason - I might immediatly trap a leg and a elbow and upa, pass his guard as the guy struggles with me, mount and pop his arm with an americana. Standard everyday response to being mounted with fists flying. Anyone who has been in a BJJ academy has done this drill or something similar a million times.

All things being equal (which they never are) physical attributes and the actual makeup of the persons involved does have a major impact on any altercation, in the street or in a ring or messing around in a kwoon.

Something to ALWAYS remember: physical skills are the smallest, repeat smallest part of personal protection.

Simply wrong. Attributes determine everything else about a person. Like others have said, much depends on the actual physical application. I think you are saying experience and sensitivity are very important parts that make up a combatant, but they are surely not everything, and obviously do not always trump strength, endurance, agility, and go.

[Kingston]

Originally posted by Ice Phoenix
Kingston: Stop bashing BJJ you dick. You admit to having no clue on the ground and yet are talking out of your ass. Grow a brain.

lol. sad sad sad......*sigh* ok ill explain myself.

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT BJJ I WAS TALKING ABOUT BEING ON THE GROUND! stupid. thats why i said i didn't know anything about bjj......i dont take bjj, but i dont need to, to know whats wrong with being on the ground. I also know how affective it has been on 1v1 fights. (and fooling around with friends)

i think everything i said in my previous post was fair.

i never once in my life bashed bjj, i bashed the armbar for a street fight (the "classic" armbars like you see in the UFC, wile on the ground that is, there are plenty of armbars in my martial art, but we dont do it from the ground)

lol bjj is good for ground stuff, ground stuff, sadly, is only a small part in the "just in case, but i need to know it" section of self defence.

i was making a coment on being on the ground in a self defence situation NOT A SPORT SITUATION. i was also assuming it would be a "serious" self defence situation were everything goes wrong (because if you let it go wrong it will). if you think he doesn't have friends with him, well here they come, no weapons? then the guy pulls a knife.....and so on and so forth

state one thing in my post that was not valid before you say im talking out of my ass.

lol please, in future think about what your saying.

[ryanhall]

You do the same things as always - move!, destroy his structure, move into a dominant position, and destroy or otherwise 'finish' opponent. There is a common factor in any encounter I will be in - me, and I will act in that manner regardless of the size of my opponent or what range me and the badguy are in - ground or otherwise.

Destroy a larger, stronger, angrier opponent's structure while he and his friends are standing over you possiby armed. Not gonna happen. Ever.

Simply wrong. Attributes determine everything else about a person. Like others have said, much depends on the actual physical application. I think you are saying experience and sensitivity are very important parts that make up a combatant, but they are surely not everything, and obviously do not always trump strength, endurance, agility, and go.

Actually, you are 'simply wrong.' Your attributes do not even come into play unless they are employed strategically. Naturally, experience factors into the equation. However, the way that you 'play' your adversary factors in even more. If you don't manipulate the situation to your advantage (I'm not talking about picking the range you want to fight in) before things throw down, you leave everything to chance.

[MrPoopy]

Last Ronin, it doesn't sound realistic. What are the chances of anyone shooting on you in a street fight? It'd be more like "he stabs you in the heart, you drop dead".

[Lost Ronin]

Ok, I apologize, I really left that one open for interpretation. What I am really trying to ask is. If you had to fight a man on the ground ( As a last resort, you ended up there), and there are so many variables that I'm not even gonna try to imagine them. What moves ( from any position) would you try to employ against this dude. All you wanna do is finish the job as quickly and efficiently as possible. In other words, you wanna render this guy harmless ( or close to it) so you can get the hell outta there. Thanks for all your replies.

[JaredExtreme]

Ok so this situation is bad to begin with. If I'm on my back in this hypothetical fight this means I've f*cked up in numerous stages:

1. Avoiding the fight altogether.
2. Not landing a sucker punch.
2. Not executing a guillotine/headlock when he shot in.

So if I'm on the ground and have no other alternatives, I would first establish guard. The reaction of a typical attacker is to start reigning punches down quickly without much regard to his base. At this point I would have my forearms in front of my face. I would take first opportunity to grab an arm that presented itself and pull him in for an armlock or a triangle. Put him to sleep or hyper-extend the arm.

Yes this is assuming there are no weapons involved and that none of his friends and none of my friends start stomping away. However, it's impossible to train for every type of scenario.