I start Hapkido in about 2 weeks.....

[Wheats]

1. Most martial arts when taught by an accomplished instructor and received by a trainable student will be a rewarding experience.

2. The intro price sounds good. My question also is: What then???

3. The phrase, "it's important to you so money is no option." Money is always a prime consideration at my house regardless of the importance I place on the activity. Is there a contract involved?

4. An instructor in this particular discipline must be able to convey complex movements & techniques which must be understood and applied by the student. Did I understand you correctly when you said you couldn't understand the instructor?

A language barrier is sometimes difficult (but not impossible) to overcome. I've heard it said that an instructor is only as good as his students...How do they look?

5. Lastly does your instructor claim affiliation with any particular hapkido governing body or association? (not that it matters - just curious) - Good luck!

[MrPoopy]

Wheats brought up a good point. I would never sign a contract. I also wouldn't pay very much for instruction. After you get to train free, paying just seems like a bad deal.

[H@pkid0ist]

ryanhall,

actually the ROK: Korean military train extensivly in the martial arts. They are a small number of military organizations that do. The ROK and Spetsnaz are 2 off the top of my head. They believe in it deeply. But, the reality is that like ryan said most elite organisations do not get to much MA training. Here is an exerpt from a book of mine that helps to explain things a little. "Deadly Fighting Skills of the World" By. Steve Crawford.

The popular image of a special froces soldier is a man trained in all the martial arts, as well as in the use of a multitude of weapons. The reality is rather different.
Western elite forces, for example, such as the British Special Air Service (SAS), US Green Berets, US Navy Sea-Air-Land (SEAL) teams and the Belgian Para-Commandos, recieve very little training in the martial arts. Though many members of each unit may be black belts in specific types of martial arts, this will be the result proficiency in a hobby pursued in their spare time.
There are two main reasons why martial arts do not form an integral part of the training schedual of many special forces units.
First, there is often not the time to fit martial arts training into busy training schedules. Elite soldiers are expected to work in small teams on operations, often behind enemy lines and in hostile enviroments. To do so successfully requires each team member being proficient in a plethora of skills, such as demolitions, communications, medicine, survival, combat diving and parachuting, which in turn means he must spend many months on training courses. Second, the carry of small arms has negated the effectiveness of many martial arts techniques. Unarmed combat and fighting with 'cold' weapons (staffs, knives, spears, clubs and the like) necessitates closing with the enemy - the last thing elite troops want to do."

Now all this being said, it doesn't mean that most of these guys don't learn anything. On the contrary, the have to just in case, but what they learn is a lethal blend of martial arts techniques taken from many different styles to capture opponents, disarm attackers and escape from capture.

As for the Hapkido issue. HKD is a wonderfull art. It is very effective, powerfull and can be extremly lethal. But like any art the quality of a system should not be judged by any one persons limited exposure or experience with it. There are great arts being taught by poor instructors and in bad schools. Also, one thing that even many Hapkidoist don;t even realise is that becouse of the diversity and non-regulation of Hapkido, it can be almost completely different from school to school. The basics will stay the same but you have to account for how each individual person changes it to suit them and their beliefs. Becouse of this not to many people teach a true form of hapkido. What you are looking into is no doupt a TKD influinced system, that is not in the least any less effective than many other forms of HKD, but still is not true HKD. You will be able to tell this for sure if there are a lot of TKD katas required and hyphenated belts. White, white w/ a yellow stripe, yellow, yellow w/ a green stripe and so on. But like I said, it doesn't make it any less effective. Just make sure that they don't require you to compete, or strongly suggest. HKD doesn't usually compete in regular tournaments. There are competitions designed just for systems like ours that can get very dangerous and brutal. Also, make sure that they don't focus on or push the TKD aspect to much otherwise it is not Hapkido, but TKD with HKD based self-defense techniques added in to make the system more street effective. True HKD and TKD do things quite different from one another. Things like how kicks are done, striking ( we don't chamber for a reverse punch. We keep our hands up more like a boxer's guard and keep our entire body relaxed) and we don't do a lot of dancing around. It wastes energy. We simple flow with our agressors energy. I would suggest that you do a little reaserch on the net and in the library before you made any commitments. This way you will have a better idea of what you should be looking for and what Traditional HKD is supposed to look like. And don't let the traditional part fool you either. Traditional Hapkido be its very essence is a progressive and eclectic combat system. The traditional part comes into play with ideology, phylosiphy and many of the other moral and character building aspects you would expect from a traditional MA. As for the price issue. It is important to know what the tuition is after your special is up. You let them know that and they should tell you. If they are still iffy and hesitant on it I would be the same with them. Remember ther are many fine self-defense systems out there, not just hap ki do and they know that just as well as anyone else. Sometimes they just need to be reminded.

Question for ryan and Bri. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest or anything. I am just curious why you seem to have such a negative opinion on Hapkido. Please let me know why. I would like to understand. D.

[Guest]

I have been involved in martial arts for over 20 years. I have seen Aikido, and I have seen Taekwondo. I have NOT seen Hapkido but, since almost all information I have seen about it describes it as a mix of the two, it makes sense that it is just as useless as them.

Hardly my most convincing argument, I grant you.

[H@pkid0ist]

Well I can understand your opinion, but the thing is that when it comes down to reality the comparisons people give don't hold water.
Here are some real comparisons of the three from experienced Hapkidoist.

Tae Kwon Do
Because it is also a Korean style, Hapkido shares most of the kicking techniques employed in Tae Kwon Do. However, in Hapkido we emphasize low-section kicks and knee attacks as opposed to high kicks in self-defense situations.
As Tae Kwon Do developed into a modern Olympic sport it also shed from its teaching many of the self-defense techniques that it previously shared with Hapkido.

Aikido
As in Aikido, the attacker is encouraged to over-commit their attack. The attack is received with minimal resistance, it is guided past the target and then the defenders own force is added to it. The result is to unbalance and throw the opponent. However, opponents do not always attack with large movements. Often short jabs and kicks are delivered with such rapidity that it is very difficult to lead the opponent’s force. In these situations, the close quarter blocking and striking techniques of Hapkido give the Hapkidoist knowledge of how to counter and overcome such attacks.

As we both know, people can turn a good system into crap easy just by making stupid changes based on not truly understanding the techniques of a system or even understanding the system itself. I have been studying the martial arts myself for almost 24 years and heve studied a total of 9 different arts. Of those arts Hapkido is one. And in Hapkido I have studied at 3 different schools. Each a bit different than the other. My current one being my favorite. I honestly feel that Hapkido is better for me and has better prepaired me for real life self-defense situations that any of the other systems I have studied. We have very little in common with Aikido other than origin. As for TKD we don't even execute our kicks the same or punch the same. Our striking is based mainly on Wing Chun, Boxing and Muai Thi. We are basically a MMA with one phylosophy and ideology. We learn techniques to extreemly andvanced levels and not just to a basic understanding or just beyond. We are traditional in mindset, phylosophy and tradition only. We are quick to throw out what doesn't work. A good HKDist will try and keep up on the techniques of other system as much as possible so that we may intergrate the usefull ones into our arsenal and also develop effective counters for said techniques. If you do some reaserch you will see that we are more than the typical comparison. We are so much more. Yes we are a technical and indepth system that does require devotion and some common sense. But for those who can make the grade the payoff is priceless.
The biggest problem as with other system I would gather is that people here thisng about other systems that the realy don't know anything about and they pass is on. As they pass it on it gets more distorted as each person who is involved changes the info. adding and subtracting more belief than fact, untill the end result is nothing more than uneducated jibberish. As MAist I believe that it is our responsability to ensure the truth and give the benefit of the doupt. I hope I have done this for you. If not then I have tried. Iether way I respect your thoughts and opinions. I belive that a person beliefs are not wrong unless they choose to not prove or disprove their thoughts and theories with fact. And this is something that only this person will know if they have done or not.
If there are any questions that you have about Hapkido please feel free to ask and I will do my best to flood you with my never ending insight and thoughts.

D.

[Guest]

You do make the Hapkido you practice sound ok. That fair?

[H@pkid0ist]

2 comparisons of Hapkido to other MAts

Hapkido and Other Martial Arts

This article is provided by Master Callum Forbes, 4th Dan, Assistant Chief instructor Kukjae Hapkido. Callum is also the instructor for the Hutt Valley Kukjae Hapkido Club.

Hapkido is an eclectic martial art meaning that it shares many similarities with other styles. In this article I would like to cover Hapkido's similarities with other main stream martial arts and our points of differentiation.

Aikido
Hapkido and Aikido share a common origin through Daito-Ryu Aiki Jujutsu. It is also because of this association that a close relationship between both styles is inferred although in actual fact both styles have much different philosophies.
Both Hapkido and Aikido teach their students to receive an attack with minimal resistance, move it away past the defender then add the defender's own force to it. This results in the opponent becoming unbalanced and vulnerable to throws, locks and other takedown techniques.
However unlike Aikido, Hapkido teaches offensive techniques as well as defensive techniques. It is this philosophical difference that sets both styles apart.

Boxing
Hapkido also employs some of the jabs and hooking punches employed in boxing.
Wrestling and Ground Fighting
Wrestling and some modern martial arts styles teach only ground fighting techniques on the assumption that most street fights end up on the ground. Kukjae Hapkido also employs an effective ground-fighting syllabus.
However it also recognizes that ground fighting techniques alone are not effective when multiple opponents are involved. Therefore Hapkido students are also taught to fight at all the other close combat ranges as well so that they can adapt their defense to whatever situation they find themselves in.

Judo
Both Hapkido and Judo share similar throwing and take down techniques using the same basic principle of taking control of the opponent's balance and then throwing the opponent using one's body or legs. In addition Hapkido students are taught to use pressure points and striking techniques to help to take control of the opponent's balance.

Ju-Jitsu
At close range Hapkido and Ju-Jitsu techniques are very similar. Both employ painful joint manipulations and pressure point applications to control opponents regardless of their size or strength. While these techniques are very effective at close range they are not so useful against longer range kicking and punching attacks. Hapkido students also practice these longer-range attacks quite extensively so that they can either use them themselves when required or to defend themselves more effectively against such attacks because of their familiarity with them.

Karate
Most of the kicking and striking attacks of Karate are very similar to those taught in Hapkido but unlike Hapkido most Karate styles do not cover close in self-defense techniques or ground fighting in any great detail.

Kendo
Black belt Hapkido students are taught the basics of Kumdo - the Korean version of Kendo. While Hapkido only teaches the very basic principles of this art, this gives its students a greater awareness of distance, timing and entry - which are critical elements of unarmed combat as well.

Kung Fu
In Hapkido senior students are taught smaller, circular hand techniques and body shifting as a means of close in self-defense and counter-attack, which resemble similar techniques, taught by some of the Kung Fu styles.

Ninjitsu
Both Hapkido and Ninjitsu share similar joint locking and throwing techniques. Like Ninjitsu, Hapkido also teaches using everyday items as thrown weapons to distract or soften up the opponent.

Military Style Unarmed Combat
While these styles teach many of the same techniques to Hapkido, they often do not take into account the legal requirements to use "Reasonable Force" in a self-defense situation. However, most of the military style techniques are designed to be used in battlefield situations where the intent is either to incapacitate or kill the opponent.
This may mean that their practitioners may find themselves charged with assault rather than their attackers (see Dean Tobin's article on Self Defense and the Law). Hapkido teaches a wide range of self-defense options that can be used according to the situation so that the Hapkido student can use 'reasonable force' in all self-defense situations.
Also, by removing the "traditional" elements of martial arts training, students of the military styles may not be getting the physical and mental benefits offered by Hapkido and other traditional styles.

Tae Kwon Do
Because it is also a Korean style, Hapkido shares most of the kicking techniques employed in Tae Kwon Do. However, in Hapkido we emphasize low-section kicks and knee attacks as opposed to high kicks in self-defense situations.
As Tae Kwon Do developed into a modern Olympic sport it also shed from its teaching many of the self-defense techniques that it previously shared with Hapkido.

_________________________________________________________________

Comparison to other Martial Arts
United States Karate Center

Aikido
As in Aikido, the attacker is encouraged to over-commit their attack. The attack is received with minimal resistance, it is guided past the target and then the defenders own force is added to it. The result is to unbalance and throw the opponent. However, opponents do not always attack with large movements. Often short jabs and kicks are delivered with such rapidity that it is very difficult to lead the opponent’s force. In these situations, the close quarter blocking and striking techniques of Hapkido give the Hapkidoist knowledge of how to counter and overcome such attacks.

Jujitsu
Many of the joint locks and throws of Hapkido are very similar to those of Jujitsu. Painful twisting of the joints and tendons along with the application of painful pressure to vital points, combined with a thorough knowledge of human anatomy help to control any opponent regardless of size or strength. These techniques are fine for close quarter attacks, however because Jujitsu practitioners do not practice their techniques against proficient kickers or punchers, they are vulnerable to such long-range attacks. Hapkidoists practice kicks and punches to a high degree of proficiency, thus the familiarity gained through practicing the techniques helps in defending against them.

Tae Kwon Do
Virtually all of the kicking techniques of Tae Kwon Do are identical to those of Hapkido. Spinning kicks, thrusts, circular kicks and sweeps are all used in sparring. Due to the fact that Hapkido is not a tournament-orientated style, other techniques like low spinning kicks, low-section kicks and knee strikes are also used. The basic hand techniques of Hapkido are similar to those of Tae Kwon Do, that is, mainly linear attacks with fist or knife hand. However in a confined space such as a crowded public bar or a narrow hallway, kicks are limited in their practicality. Self-defense tools such as elbows, knees, head butts and joint attacks are essential for survival in such situations. All these techniques are practiced in Hapkido to produce a thorough knowledge of all ranges of attack and defense.

Kung Fu
In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques and fast close quarter parrying, which resemble the techniques of Kung Fu. Advanced weaponry techniques using the long pole Bo and the fan are similar to those of Kung Fu.

Judo
Throwing plays an important role in Hapkido. The basic principles of judo are used in Hapkido, that is, moving your opponents center of balance to a vulnerable position and using your leg or body to topple the opponent. As well, Hapkido uses strikes or pressure points to maneuver the opponent with less use of strength.

Kendo
At advanced stages, students are taught Kumdo. Basic strikes and blocks are similar to Kendo, however circular and low section attacks typical of traditional Korean swordsmanship are taught once the basics have been learned.

[H@pkid0ist]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
You do make the Hapkido you practice sound ok. That fair?

Fair.

[Guest]

Alright already! Alright already!

I said it was ok! No more! Please!

[ryanhall]

Very interesting material, HKDist. Thanks for posting it. Everyone knows how much I hate wrist locks, but I submit that Hapkido dose have some other good stuff to offer.