Any one attend a seminar of George Dillman?

[Tom Yum]

Hey guys. I've seen the ads for George Dillman about a zillion times in BB magazine as well as others. He practices kempo-jujitsu? He practices pressure point KO techniques, which he teaches in his seminars. This guy has been in MA for a long time and is not a physical specimen, but I've read that he has KO'd amateur boxers, soccer players as well as others who did not believe in his techniques. I don't think this guy would still be around if he was just another one of those professed chi masters.

His art is based on the attack of nerve endings, pressure points etc in sensitive areas of the body. Has anyone seen one of his KOs or attended his seminars?

[ryanhall]

He KO'ed a soccer player? He must be one hell of a tough guy, because soccer players are some of the baddest dudes around. All joking aside, I have explained how this works before. It's psychological, and it only has an effect on you if you believe it will. Ever heard of Ashida Kim? He's been around for a long time and he's full of it too. His stuff MAY work if you stand bolt still and allow him to hit you in just the right way, or more likely, if you are a student of his who falls when he toches you.

I hate to type this out again: if you believe something can be done to you, to an extent, it can. I am not talking about spontaneous blistering or gaining the ability to fly, just simple psychology. If you walk into a room and see a little man in a white robe whack ten people (who happen to be his students--but you don't know that now) on the side of the neck, slap them on the cheek, flick them in the forehead and then see them mysteriously fall to the ground unconscious, you may begin to believe that this man has the ability to to the same to you. When it's your turn, you may believe that he can do this to you, and when he does, you may fall over without resisting.

Now if you walked into the same room without seeing any of the nonsense happen and this same man whacked you on the neck, slapped you, and flicked you, you would not only fail to fall to the ground, you would probably smack him around for his efforts. I've seen it done, and this is how that nonsense works. Think about it this way: if you don't think you can do something, your chances of actually completing the task drop exponentially. If you have confidence (legitimate) in yourself, you preform to the best of your abilities. It is all in your mind.

The human body is a powerful machine, and it does not drop with the touch of a hand. Period. Anyone who tells you different is a charlatan who's selling something.

[Tom Yum]

From what I gather in his pictures, he doesn't just touch them. It looks like he chops the heck out of the guy. He could very well be full of it.

Did you ever see the video of the Houston police officer smack down this huge pimp in the 5th ward? The pimp was this huge guy who looked like serious bidness. The officer was off duty and tried to stop the pimp from smacking a prostitute. When the pimp charged the officer, he side stepped and threw an outside knife hand to the base of the pimps neck. The guy was out for atleast a minute and had trouble standing up. Crazy Joe & Darrianation have both seen this, but we can't find a clip. Have you seen it?

[ryanhall]

I have seen it, and it may very well be the real deal. The cop may have hit the carotid artery, which I have heard is capable of causing a knockout. However, I don't put any faith in anything I haven't seen in person or heard from someone I trust. As a result, I don't trust it to work on a regular basis. Secondly, the cop did hit him pretty hard, and the neck is a weak spot in any event, so it may have been a fluke. I wouldn't know without asking the principles (not gonna happen).

Another reason I don't believe in the neck chop KO is this: it was done to me and it didn't work. It was years ago, I was about 17 and it was a kid I knew but was none too friendly with who was heavy into some kind of traditional karate (he was 18 and had been training since he was 10 or 12 or something). We got into a small arguement that I thought was going nowhere, and I turned away. To impress his cousin who was in from out of town, he hit me. It was dark and I never saw it coming. He hit me with a knife/axe hand strike in the side of the neck, and it DID hurt. It did NOT, however, KO me or disorient me in any real way, and I spun around, hitting him in the temple with a hammerfist that dropped him to the pavement. I realize that this was like a schoolyard fight and that this kid was no Karate Master (had a low-level black belt of some kind), but he did get me pretty hard, having the element of surprise to boot, and I didn't go down. I didn't even have much training at the time, only a year and a half of Judo (which didn't show a bit). As a result of this, I would not put any faith in pressure point knockouts. I have been told more times than I can count that so-and-so can death touch this and one punch kill that, but I've yet to see anything that will prove it.

Here are my presssure points:
1) throat 2) eyes 3) groin 4) chin 5) nose 6) jaw 7) back of the neck 8) solar plexus 9) knees 10) ears 11) feet/ankles/toes 12) thighs

I know that these work most every time if you hit them solid enough, so they are all that I would put faith in. Just hammer away at the head and you'll do damage. Kicks, stomps, and knees to the thigh, toes, groin, and knees work just fine too. Anything else is a gamble.

[Toudiyama]

Pressure points work period,
Pressure point are hard to perform in a real fight, also period
Presurepoint only work if you manipulate more than one and even then it doesn't have to knock you out
the effect they have is rated 1-5 (or 6) 5 being unconsious
Best use is as a setup for a non pressurepointtechnique. For instance use it for kuzushi(disturbing balance) before a throw

Dillman is one of the few demonstrating on anybody, others arén't so keen because one is disrupting things

Most Kyusho and Tuite students will agree that it's very hard to apply them on a moving person

Ps
I cannot imagine an 18 year old having an indepth knowledge of pressurepoints let alone be able to use them

[eXcessiveForce]

OkaY the neck chop works. One of two ways. You can hit the carotid artery which can cause a knockout by causing the blood flow to reduce. this is not the best approach.

You can hit the venal nerve which is the never pathway that controls the speed of the heart. It you hit this it has the ability to stop the heart.


Many people do use to power of belief. But there are things that are done on a scientific basis.

The blistering happens because the brain causes it to happen.
Placebo effect happens because people believe.

Cardial stun to the chest works because of targetting and power. ( I have seen a cardial stun done where the person had to be revived by CPR)

I have seen a brachial Knockout (slap to the neck)

I have experienced paralysis from a strike to my knee.



I do not believe that these are magic. I knew about the cardial stun from when I was little. My friend was pulled out of TKD by his father who was a cardiologist who was very upset about the kicking and punching to the chest. Later I actually saw it.


Now whether you can make them work on the street is a totally different story.

One of my students got a Dillman book and was working on learning it in secret. Then he came to me with all this crap about kicking to the knee with his big toe to cause paralysis. I knew about the nerve strike he was talking about but the kicking with the big toe shows an incredible lack of judgement.

Venal strikes work because you are attacking the speed control pathway to the heart. No magic Lots of examples of people being hit and nerve damage results in death.



I had asked about Dillman a few years ago on this board and one person said he had been knocked out with a series of strikes to the arm. it was either Empty Cup or Quietanswer I can't remember for sure and the post no longer exists on this board. Just like my old name on here.


there is a difference between stress reactions (blistering to improper stimulus, going in to shock from a minor wound) and Strikes to nerve pathways.

[ryanhall]

Pressure points work period,

There's no doubt that there are places on the body that hurt a lot when they are hit. So from that standpoint, pressure points do exist. They are not just the targets I listed. But do they allow one to knock out an opponent by tapping them, not a chance. Also, as you mentioned, accessing them in a fight with someone hitting back, or even someone who is moving is extremely difficult. I pretty much ran a list of places that you can expect to be able to hit with a good effect on a moving person. As a side note, pressure point strikes can be totally nullified by certain types of clothing. If someone has a big jacket on, hard punches to the body won't do much, so there's no chance that a pressure point strike will work.

I cannot imagine an 18 year old having an indepth knowledge of pressurepoints let alone be able to use them

I can't either, and that's why I noted his age and that he was no expert, just someone who had been practicing his art for a fairly significant amount of time. Still, if you've been training for more than five years (really more than six months to a year) and you can't deliver a good enough shot to drop someone (especially someone smaller than you--he was bigger), then you need to look elsewhere.

Another drawback of pressure point strikes would be the extreme level of learning time required before potential for application. If someone who is 18 can't do it, then I'm not sure I would put my faith in it. I can teach someone a face smash, a hammerfist, an elbow, and a palm strike and have them using all of them in under an hour. That's the kind of stuff I put my faith in. To each thier own, but I believe pressure point strikes to be for deomonstration or the dojo, not fighting. If all one had to do was tap their target correctly, we'd have professional athletes (basketball and football player in particular) dropping dead or unconscious left and right. I don't see that on SportsCenter too often. I do catch a clip of a player who ate an elbow to the face or a flailing hand to the throat fall down in pain every now and then. These aren't even deliberate shots and they have a visible effect. Until I see the same with a finger poke under the arm, I won't believe in the practicality of pressure points.

[Tom Yum]

They don't tap the pressure point, they knock the piss out of it.

[ryanhall]

They don't tap the pressure point, they knock the piss out of it.

Not in the videos I've seen of Dillman in action. He hits them, sure, but he doesn't do it with much authority. Mike Tyson knocks the piss out of things. Dillman hits things. There is a defininte difference. Why ask here? Go into a bar, start some trouble, try out a pressure point strike and see where it gets you.

[Toudiyama]

wouldn't they just hit harder in real life? I would
What would hitting the points with the intension of Tyson do? (for the few people capable of that )

Ah wel the same.....one puch knock outs on most mortals

[Tom Yum]

I don't practice pressure point strikes like Dillman and I've never attended one of his seminars, so I can't speak with much credibility in the issue, much less start and win a barfight with them (lol). However, I would like to hear more about his art (tuite) from other practicitioners. Or better yet, his students.

I'm sure many people are skeptical of his abilities. I know that pp techniques can stun from personal experience, but I have never seen a ko; except from the Dillman ad. There are definitely imposters and so called chi masters who are full of it, so I would like to hear from anyone who has actually attended/trained with Dillman who has a different MA background than he and has skeptically experienced one of his seminars.

[Tom Yum]

BTW I have heard many wisecracks about Ashida Kim and allthough they are hillarious at times, I don't think the man is a quack...unless you can buy a bb in his style via online courses.

[ryanhall]

I don't think the man is a quack...unless you can buy a bb in his style via online courses.

It's not an online course, it's a bunch of papers stapled together wrapped in a black belt. Would you like to learn more? Go to www.philelmore.com. The site should be up, but it was being refurbished, so I can't be sure. It's worth the wait in any event. Lots of good stuff there.

[Tom Yum]

Holly smokes Ryan! This guy (A.Kim) is an oddball. I would stay the heck away from him. I think its some kind of cult-group, like the Chung Moo Do thing in the 80's.

[Roland]

I've seen some MPEG's of George Dillman's seminars which shows him knocking out volunteers using his "pressure point techniques".

In all the ones I've seen, he basically chops the guy's neck HARD while the volunteer is just standing there. It really looked like he was tee'ing off on his volunteers when he was chopping them.