Aikido's Effectiveness Ct'd

[ryanhall]

Aikido can be very powerful, if mastered, like any other arts

I will never understand comments like this one. Aikido is not a combat art by any stretch of the imagination. It certainly has useful elements (turning to defuse energy, etc.), but it does not stand up to the stress of a real fight very well at all. People simply don't allow you to twist their wrist or throw them at will, regardless of your 'mastery' of this art (or any other similar discipline). You might not be able to stop me from punching you in the jaw (or me you), but you won't have much trouble tightening your forearm enough to prevent a wrist lock.

[Gom]

Hey I've been reading through this forum for the last few weeks, so i thought i might aswell join and have a say aswell so go easy on me

I'm not too sure of Aikido as an art, but I do study a form of Ju Jitsu (Im not too sure what style it is, I just cant remember what the sensei called it It was far too long for me to remember at the time ) where grappling and throws and locks are the primary focus. You do learn a few moves involving a slip and sidestep then sidekick, front kick or roundhouse but the focus is on the fact that you are stepping and striking etc. You dont actualyl learn correct body mecahnics for striking till closer to black belt first dan. Anyhow my sensei has pulled off some amazingly fast throws and locks but I know that its just about impossible for him to pull a throw off on my left jab and the step in wouldnt be too flash because my fists are faster than his step and following up with a right wouldn't put him in hte best position. Even saying that he's a lot more experienced fighter than I and hed probly kick my arse no matter what I do. However the point is that my sensei knows this and wouldnt try catch my left jab. Anyone trying to catch a left jab off a boxer, Thai boxer, I wouldn't even bother at my level trying to catch a quick jab from an untrained attacker. You simply slip block, parry, whatever, do a few strieks of your own. Until the attacker comes at you with something that presents an opening.

It works just like boxing and Thai boxing. If a guy throws a left jab at you, you dont think sweet as theres the left jab now I can Hit him in the jaw with a big right and end the fight right now. Likewise if someone throws a jab you dont attempt a wrist lock on them unless you fancy getting a hiding or embarrasment at a seminar. Set the opponent up by providing what appear to be suitable targets. Just know what he miht be able to throw at you. If your at jab, straight right range be aware of either and if he throws a big right and it lookes like he will follow through then perform whatever it is you know whether it be O soto Gari (sorry for spelling) or whatever.

I think someones already pretty mcuh said this much more concisely earlier on when they said that the only way to really test techniques is when you are sparring properly. But you do need to build up the technique from a non resisting partner.

Eh thats about it

[tkdkid]

ok, what would I gain by lying? Well, it doesn't matter whether you believe me or not. yes, a lot of fights do happen in a close range situation but in this case it wasn't. I knew that the other guy was a boxer from the local ymca. he was a real prick and was making fun of my friend calling him a chink and some other racial names. And the taekwondo guy happen to be a friend of mine who has been training i think either TaeKwonDo or Tang Soo Do since he was like 10. He's got a lot of experience in street fights, and I guess he just wanted to show off his skills. He has tremendous speed behind his kicks and he used it effectively. Are you implying that kicks don't work in a close range combat?...I have used front kick many times effectively...never a roundhouse kick but kicks can be very effective. I saw some very nice jumping roundhouse kicks pulled off in muay thai clips also. I agree that boxing would be more eefective way of defense but to imply that a jumping roundhouse kick can't be pulled off on a boxer is just stupid, and stereotyping. No offense intended.

peace

[tkdkid]

K, I do agree aikido would be hard to pull off. But some joint locks and etc can be pulled off easily if done fast. I learnt some joint locks from my uncle, who takes ju jit su classes, and some of the stuff that he taught me i was able to pull off in my unsuspecting friends. But if it was a real fight and the other person was as prepared as me, I agree that it'd be kinda hard to pull off some of the stuffs in aikido or joint locks.

[Gom]

I agree there are many wristlocks and throws that area easy to pull off. If someone grabs my wrist its fairly easy to pull off a few different wristlocks on them. I say fairly easy instead of piss easy because it depends on many things. Mainly if they are expecting it or not. In a Ju Jitsu Session if my sensei asks me to be demonstrated a move on ( and he does more than just demonstrate which is good and bad, Good for the others because they see the technique performed proply and they see that it does hurt, bad for me because it does hurt ) if he tells me what move he is doing or even if he just says This is a wristlock, your mind has too wilingly go along with it. Wrist locks arm locks are hard to put on without vast experience against a fully resistant partner, all it takes is a turn of the wrist and the wristlock no longer works. The attacker now has both hands on the opponents wrist and might aswell be shaking his hand and before you know it your opponent has punched you in the face.

You have to fully break down each technique to learn the steps and processes involved with advancing hte current situation to the next step. If you can fully break down every technique and your mind works fast enough to think of many techniques then Aikido, Ju Jitsu etc are great. Because if someone (which is anyone who doesnt want you to put a technique on them) manages to slightly upset the process you have ingrained to memory then you bung the technique, lose confidence in what you are attempting and ultimately lose the fight. A skilled practioner (probably not most people) in a soft art should be able to have part of a technique broken by someone and instead of thinking how do I apply the rest of the technique and then being bashed into the ground for hesitating, be able to instantly move on to a different technique alltogether, whether that technique be a throw, lock, takedown, fancy strike or simply a shove to create some distance (for instance if my wrists are in pain from bein demonstrated on and i decide i dont feel like a lot of pain and i resist my sensei in fornt of the class 3 or 4 times then he points out that he has my arm and demonstrates an elbow to my face) so you can recollect your thoughts for a fraction of a second and try something else. Like forget the fact that your a Black Belt Martial Artist because you dont know how to breakdown technique properly and apply depends on the right situation before running or for the proud clenching your fists and enter a brawl. That's possibly one of the problems with people learning soft arts. It's often taught where you learn a technique and that technique is only approachable from say a straight right. When in fact you should learn (or in most cases figure out by yourself coz it wont be taught to you) how to apply techniques that you have learnt to many punches and where applicable kicks.

Ive asked my sensei some really stupid questions before. When performing a takedown my sensei was showing he said and your opponent lies nicely sideways by your feet. At the time I assumed this is how it should be done. While it is the way to be done I was perfomring the move on the most unco person on earth once. And he continually landed in the most bizarre positioning. I asked my sensei how to put him in the right postion when he went down and he simply replied "Who cares. He's on the ground and you're not. If you felt like it on the street you could stand on his head, kick him in the face, drop a knee to the head, whatever your imagination limits you to. Because you're standing and he's not"

Now I'm not saying that most teachers are shit or that most students are shit. Im not saying im a Ju Jitsu legend I have been doin it for crap all time. This is just my opinion from what I've studyed thus far from Boxing and Jujitsu. I would recommend taking up a soft style with a something like Muay Thai or boxing or even Karate if you felt the need for belts and fancy Gi because at least you learn the mechanics of punching

[Gom]

I just saw how much I actually type and it could put people off reading through this topic

But a quick analogy of breaking down technique. In boxing you dont like 50 combinations and then in the ring move from combination to combination. You learn the punches. Then you learn some combinations that are fairly basic. Then you make a few complex combinations I guess. Im not that experienced in boxing yet. But ultiamtely you are fighting using punches and combinations and changing things as you progess. Soft arts should be the same.

Basically theres not enough sparring because a lot of the techniques are simply too dangerous to try with a free flowing sparr. to put a technique on you have to put it on hard and fast. Not many training partners are keen for broken wrists arms and legs. But starting out slowly and with a good training partner (ie knows when to stop the technique) then you should be fine.

[Lizard]

Some people have the opinion that "Aikido can be effective if you spend a life time mastering it" Even if this is true do you want to spend 10 years learing how to floor someone with a fancy throw or 1 year learning how to K.O. them with a powerful right cross?

[Thai Bri]

I'd rather spend a few hours how to floor someone. After all, it is achieveable.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Well I know an aikido black belt who says that stuff doesn't work against a skilled fighter who has good boxing skills.

Well I know an Englishman from Manchester who says all farts are turds just saying hello.

It's true.

It's true.

[Thai Bri]

Hello!