The one traditional art that could hold out in UFC

[Ryu (non-working password]

The one traditional art that held out with the MMA's was Kodokan judo. Christophe Leninger lost in the UFC, but held his own with Shamrock, and went the distance with shootfighter, and mixed martial artist, Guy Mezger. I was thinking about that long fight, and even though Mezger won, Christophe hung with him the whole way.
If you are looking at "traditional" styles in the UFC... Karate, classic jiu-jitsu, kung fu, ninjutsu, sumo, etc. It was "judo" that seemed to be able to hold out against the MMA, even though ending up with a loss. Christophe went the distance with Guy Mezger after he'd been training with Ken, and fighting in Pancrase. If the "traditional" art had been any other such as karate, taekwondo, kung-fu, etc. I think it would have been a massacre. I think Christophe's performance in that fight at least gave notice that out of the traditional MA's, judo might be the most effective, and nipping at the MMA heels.

Any thoughts?

Ryu

[Ronin]

You wouldn't be biased by any chance, wouldya Ryu?

Seriously, yes, judo is probably the most effective "traditional" style for MMA. Why? Easy. Because it contains groundfighting, submissions, and throws. Most other traditional arts don't.

In fact, judo probably played a leading role in the development of BJJ, but that's a controversial topic.

Most MMA fighters have studied judo, esp. the wrestlers.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Biased?











Where'd you get that idea?

[nhb_wanabe]

good post

you may be right. funny thing is, I bet Royce would have tapped Christophe right out. especially wearing gis.

[duchman]

Ryu check your history book! Isn't muay thai traditional?

kodokan judo only thing?
Remco pardoel(judo classic jujitsu)
Gerard Gordeau(savate)
Oleg taktarov(sambo & judo)

[Ryu (non-working password]

Duchman, savate did not fair well in UFC, sorry
Pure Muay Thai didn't impress me during the old days, remember Howard Howard's big knockout over that kid? He was a Muay Thai competitor. Look what happened to the Muay Thai fighter in UFC 2 against Remco. Can't remember his name, but have seen him in pro bouts in Thailand.
Sambo is not "traditional", and is a mix of judo, wrestling, and some of their own stuff.

Out of all the traditional arts, judo stands out as the best.

Ryu

[Maxximus]

wrestling is a traditional art as well

although it is a western traditional art whereas judo is an asian traditional art. Pure wrestling has obviously done pretty well for itself in NHB/MMA. As for Leninger, I don't think he was really all that. He lost both times and all he really did in both matches you mentioned was use whatever grappling skills he had to get defensive and hold on to dear life while Shamrock and Metzger beat on him. The guy never put up any sort of a good offense. For the most of the Metzger fight, all Metzger did was grab him by his gi lapel and punch him repeatedly and he didn't seem to be able to do anything except absorb punishment.

On the other hand, wrestling has not only tread water against MMAs but has beat them as well and is a dominant force in the sport. Most of the time when you put a traditional judoka against a good wrestler the wrestler will physically dominate the entire time. Case in point, when I see members of the wrestling club and judo club at the univeristy I attend grapple with one another, the judokas always get spanked. I hink any art with a functional grappling base will be able to tread water for a little while in MMA, but in terms of traditional forms that have proven to be dominant forces in the sport, wrestling is the only one that comes to mind.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Ah, Maxximus, I didn't even think of that, and I am an ex-wrestler myself! Very well made point, Dan Severn sure showed he could compete. I think I was gearing it more towards Asian "martial arts" as people know them. But you do have a point. For some reason, a lot of judoka do not focus on newaza that much, and I feel it kind of hurts the sport, and art. I have seen some great newaza guys who could choke out wrestlers (case in point when a Japanese exchange student came into my high school wrestling team)
But it seems most do not put much effort into newaza. I think it's a shame. Christophe did get beat in those fights, and didn't put up much of an offense, but my point was that if he was using any other "traditional martial art" (wrestling excluded) he would have never lasted like he did.

Ryu

[fil]

Good example of a mostly judo trained fighter being successful in MMA is Joel Gerson defeating Rumino sato in Shooto.

[Playa]

No way Jose. 90% of BJJ guys gonna smack that beeyotch down.

[fil]

Originally posted by Playa
No way Jose. 90% of BJJ guys gonna smack that beeyotch down.

Joel Gerson fought BJJ fighter Ricardo Botelho and lost a very close split decision in shooto. Certainly the BJJ guy did not "smack that beeyotch down"....

[duchman]

gerard was one of the toughest fighters ever!
Orland wiet is a ligtweight and remc a heavy

[Playa]

Well then that BJJ cat have no business being there. When you come to whup ass, don't leave the whup at home.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Orlando Weit!
that was his name. Thanks Duch.

Ryu

[Bad Karma]

WTF?!?

"In fact, judo probably played a leading role in the development of BJJ, but that's a controversial topic."

I'm astonished this was even mentioned. BJJ is so unique that the BJJ people just started wearing gi's by chance, huh? Oh, wait! The triangle is unique to BJJ, huh? No, No! The self defense BJJ teaches is purely Brazilian design, huh? Naw, goshin jitsu looks nothing like it at all. The triangle choke wasn't found in an old Judo book. Gi's. Now, I know I've seen gi's being worn all over the world. Not gi-like; gi's. To me, someone is living in denial and it ain't me.

Peace