I'm just curious...

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Thanks Underdog for the offer, I hope I can make it!! I will give you more details on my trip, when I get more information.


And for the God theory, sometimes I wonder if they best place to find GOD is church. I been to church all my life, and it has no reached a ultimate low, perhaps it is because everyone uses the church more as a social event that a service. Dont get me wrong, most of the church leaders would take a bullet for their students, the thing is, how can you believe when all the students and followers are nothing in a way like the leaders?

Its so hypocritcal, Im the only grade 11 guy attending because everyone else skips and goes to the mall. Makes me wonder if it is worth it. Also my mother forces me, and will not take no for an answer if I want to skip. I respect her wishes and just simply attend now and pretend to enjoy it for my mother's gratification.

But I wonder, has church made me open my eyes, or just simply have blind faith. The answer to this question sure doesnt lie in my church.

[Ryu (non-working password]

YeLLa, you bring up a question that people have been debating for some time. Let me see if I can perhaps give some answers even though I'm no devout church-goer myself.
Faith means little if you cannot make a personal connection to something higher than (or possibly inside, etc) yourself.
Church is a place where faith is meditated upon. The service should be a personal thing between you and God. Now Church as a social place is not really grasping the actual meaning of the structure Plus you can find many people who say "Church is worthless, just pray to God in your own way, you don't need church." I tend to think that the view is quite ignorant, but has its heart in the right place.
Church is tradition of the religion. At least in my religion which is Orthodox Christianity. I come across as almost agnostic at times, but in reality I simply try to look and study religion from a faithful aspect, a scientific aspect, political, and philosophical. I've said this before. Church has a rich history, and has become (or at least should be) a place of sanctuary, and respect for your chosen path. Think of an ancient Japanese shrine to a strict MA practitioner. It is a symbol of what he does. So that is one way of looking at it. This way is very traditional, and as I said the Orthodox religion is very old. (The first Christian religion) But this has been mixed in with my own personal feelings, bushido, etc.
There's different groups of people, and there are some Christian churches that are not seen in this way in the first place. But from my point of view, Church should not be a place you are dragged to, but a place to gather your bearings so to speak. You don't have to go all the time, in my opinion, but when you do...you better be in the proper respect.

Ryu

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Faith should be a personal connection, however being an immature teen, having distractions around me make it difficult. I suppose to "find" god, I would have to give myself up totally, to tell you the truth, Im scared of doing that. At the same time, I am doubting my faith and am questioning the validity of it all. I mean there are many many many good people that do not have faith in a higher being, why is it they are going to hell? Why dont animals go too? What is the point of making infants and children if they are going to die at an early age? Why is it the natives of other countries that never hear the world of God are going to hell? Perhaps someday, I will find the solution to my heart and finally see the light. I just dont know if it lies with Christianity or with myself.

[Ronin]

YeLLa TiGeR:

God doesn't send good people to hell, period. Or babies.

Anyone who tells me different is full of it.

If there is a hell, it is for people who commit monstrous crimes, not for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists, or anyone else who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ.

I like Jesus, but God does not play favorites. Follow the Golden Rule, and you are half-way to heaven, IMO.

Anything else is just more divisive bullshit designed to make some people rich and everyone else miserable.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Then what is the point of following God and practicing my faith if I dont have to believe in him and still not go to hell???

I am VERY confused.

[Ronin]

TiGeR:

So am I, I just act like I know everything! LOL.

Seriously, if your faith helps make you a better person, then follow it. If not, scrap it. Kind of like fighting. "Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless."

Fear is not a good reason to worship something. I am getting into Christianity because I think that Christ was on to something with his love and non-violence teachings. But that doesn't mean that Buddha was wrong.

It's the exclusionist, "either-or" mind-set that makes people hate and kill each other. Forget it.

Follow your conscience. You KNOW that it is wrong to lie, steal, cheat, and hurt other people (the ones that aren't trying to kill you). Religion should just be there to remind you occasionally to do the right thing. Being a "Christian" is no guarantee of anything, unless you follow Christ's teachings.

I am 27, and I am in the same boat you are. Don't feel bad.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Your 27????

Damn, your older than I thought you would be! LOL

I can see what you mean Ronin, sorta like a subreligion within a religion huh? I think I get it, but your ideas sound so utterly blasphemous!

I think I have a lot of time left before I have to reach any conclustions. So its all good!

[Ronin]

Blasphemous?

Ha! You're right! I don't call myself "Ronin" for nothing! I can never seem to get more than two people to agree with me at any one time!

I gotta go to class. Peace, buddy. You'll figure things out eventually.

[Ryu (non-working password]

YeLLA, I was making a long reply..and got cut off.

Let me start again.
Sorry. Hope you read this when you get the chance...

Ryu

continued...

[Ryu (non-working password]

Okay here we go again...

YeLLa, let me make a stab at the dark. Correct me if I'm wrong. I may be. Are you Baptist?

Questioning your faith is not blasphemous, nor wrong. It means that you are interested in your faith, and wish to delve into a deep understanding of what it truly means to be religious. So for that I commend you.
I will stick my neck out here...hope I don't offend anyone. The Baptists...I think have wrongly interpreted much of the Bible. Your concern over who makes it into heaven is not only a good one, but a noble one as well. Let me explain. When talking about hell...the pressure is on the Christian people to explain just why certain people are "going" so to speak. Let me give you an example to make a point clear...have you seen the film "Casualties of War?" It is a movie about a Viet woman who is kidnapped and raped by American GI's during the VN war. The movie was done tastefully, but I didn't like it because I am the way I am (they needed Mark Coleman to play the part of the hero instead of Michael J. "I'm smaller than the girl in the film" Fox.) But I digress
Anyway, the woman suffers through unspeakable tortures..only to be murdered at the end despite the hero's attempts to save her. Now....imagine for a moment that you, YeLLa TiGeR, are God. Just use your human compassion for this example... imagine this girl coming through the "tunnel" bleeding, broken, raped, and near tears. Crawling to you, she collapses and looks up at you. You hold your hand out to her...ah but wait! Alas, she is not Christian, so you send her to hell to burn for eternity, and suffer more horrors than she ever has before. Now imagine her life before her rape and death. Moral, compassionate, loving, and pure. Now feel with your own human heart. Doesn't seem just does it? Seems pretty F*ing outraging! Right? Well if you feel this way with just your mere human heart...how can God "the Ultimate Love" not feel this? If she goes to hell because of her religious beliefs alone...then YOU are more compassionate than GOD...and that, my friend, cannot be possible.

Let me continue on...

Ryu

[Ryu (non-working password]

As I mentioned before, my heritage is Greek, and my religion Greek Orthodox. The Orthodox religion was the first Christian religion, and started 33 years after Christ died. This is not saying anything apocolyptic, but my uncle is an Orthodox priest, and he does not hold the Baptist view that all other religions will go to hell. He has told me numerous times.."we may know where the Holy Spirit is, but we don't know where he ISN'T." These words are from a philosopher/theologin and not just a blind devotee.
Many people will interpret the Bible in many different ways. To be truly religious, it is important to ask yourself the very same questions you are asking. And you are not without good company. Your associates are St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Anselm, so you can see what I'm getting at. These men have been some of the most influential figures in Christian history. Their words, especially Augustine's reflected the same questions, frusterations, honest criticisms, and wonder that any real thinker will come to.
Their answer...was that you need faith to fall back on when the questions overcome you. When you gather your strength..you can get right back to those questions again. Soon pieces of info come to you, you see things differently, and with emotions near you. Love, compassion, justice,empathy, valor...
Religion is not wrong. It is PEOPLE who make it confusing. You have to use your hearts...it was in the bible that you will read "The Lord's laws are etched in all men's hearts." So understand your feelings, don't repress them. Use your brain, and your heart as well as your science books, professors, etc.
I don't think I have answered your questions in a big revelation of enlightenment or anything. But that wasn't my point. You have to realize that being religious is piety to your faith. You must be as serious, critical, and ponderous of it as any other thing you hold dear.
This is religion. Christianity is no different.

Take care,

Ryu

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Wasnt the movie called "Hamburger Hill"?

Hmmmm that film, I saw that like 4 times when I was in like grade 3, very good example Ryu. I see what you mean about having love. Its also simliar to the natives in Africa and whatnot having no interactions with missionaries.

Im actually a Presbyterian. But good guesss, my pastor told me that our faiths and beliefs are actaully similar. I think you can also argue that the girl never in her life had a chance to "meet" god. I remember asking that question to one of the Pastor's, he said "I have no idea." Well, its unfair to judge people on that, its ridiculous to think that he would hold all the solutions for me anyway. I've also have been taught that God is a jealous god. Would that imply that he is imperfect? Man so many double meanings and misinterpretations, its mystifying. And its not like if you follow one thing and find out when your dead thats it wrong, you can go back and change it! Religion is risky as well.

[The Colonie Crusher]

There is no God. There is no afterlife. Prayer is as useful as rubbing your lucky rabbit's foot. I can't understand why people in the year 2000 still believe in an invisible man in the sky watching over us. Religion and faith are for people who fear death. Well folks, I hate to break it to you, but when the party's over, IT'S OVER!!! There is no after hours club when THIS party's over. So have fun now. Follow your goals and dreams and don't look back. Oh and by the way, IF there is a God, I seriously doubt he's going to condemn me to hell for eternity just because "I didn't follow the 10 commandments". IF there is a God, and he is the loving SOB that everyone talks about, then I won't have nothing to worry about. If he wanted robots, why would he have given us brains. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Ryu (non-working password]

You'll do fine.
Just don't let the confusion take the purity of faith away from you.
Look at different Christian religions, when you get to college take philosophy of religion courses, etc.
Read the Confessions of St. Augustine...
you're not alone in your journeys.

Take care,
Ryu

[Ryu (non-working password]

CC,
no offense, but this thread is for a deeper nature than that. This is not sunday school says...
This is philosophical and about someone looking inwardly through his own knowledge.
I cannot argue "invisible man" stuff because that is pseudo-religious garbage. "God" is not an invisible man...grow up, it's the year 2000.

Your words are just as unthoughtful, and non-scientific, as a blind follower of religion.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I have little patience for that.

Ryu