Poll

[Loor]

Hey,
I am a Martial Arts student, and I am that of the Korean Martial Arts, Tae Kwon Do. I know that Kung Fu is more of a "pretty" art. I have always said that if you look "pretty" when you fight, that it is by accident. Tae Kwon Do is a very forceful and aggressive way. I've know from experience that you should go for either somthing like Jiu Jitsu or Tae Kwon Do because they are more effective. I say not Karate because you are not as free as you are when you practice Tae Kwon Do. This is just my outlook on things, and this is my very minimized opinion.

[BadgerFu57]

...............................................I am going to listen to All-American Rejects now.

[RobertG]

Loor what would I do without you? Oh, right, I might get some work done.

When you say Kung Fu you are talking about probably thousands of different styles. Its like saying Katate, Silat, or Kali, or hell, even "wrestling". Some of these styles are "pretty", some of them are down and dirty and effective.

However, I am pretty sure no one has ever lumped TKD into the effective category. Putting your foot above your head for any reason is generally a bad idea. Trying to lump TKD in with JJ is rather silly. And saying TKD is somehow different from Karate shows a little historical naivette, don't you think? TKD is a very modern institution, not something that can be traced back hundreds and hundreds of years.

I understand it may be the only art available to you--and that's better than nothing. But don't get these grandiose notions that TKD is the best art. It is what it is, nothing more. You'll get flexible and maybe develop some good kicks and get some sparring experience. You're going to have to expand your training when the opportunity arises.

[Great Sage]

Re: Poll

Originally posted by Loor
Hey,
I am a Martial Arts student, and I am that of the Korean Martial Arts, Tae Kwon Do. I know that Kung Fu is more of a "pretty" art. I have always said that if you look "pretty" when you fight, that it is by accident. Tae Kwon Do is a very forceful and aggressive way. I've know from experience that you should go for either something like Jiu Jitsu or Tae Kwon Do because they are more effective. I say not Karate because you are not as free as you are when you practice Tae Kwon Do. This is just my outlook on things, and this is my very minimized opinion.

Puahahahahaha... Thanks for the great laughs... No, I mean it, kid... I honestly don’t think that you’re naive, more likely, you’re ignorant and misinformed so I’ll enlighten you.

First of all, I’m positive you’re referring to Wushu performance-style martial arts when you say “pretty” kung-fu techniques. However, I will tell you that the other aspect of Wushu is Sanshou, which is a legitimate fighting art with less “prettiness.”

Furthermore, kung-fu and karate styles range from being effective to laughable, so to put all of them into one category is a bit presumptuous. More likely, you can label TKD as being effective or noneffective, but there are only about 7 styles, and they all look very similar.

MOST people in the Martial Arts community will disagree with you that TKD is an effective, forceful or aggressive art. They WILL AGREE with me that TKD falls into the “pretty” martial arts category. Simply put, TKD uses fancy kicking techniques, flowery forms and static postures.

[Manufest]

hmmm i think everyone assumes that all people in tkd use all high ineffective kicks. There are many effective low kicks, and at my dojang we pratice alot of low kicks for self defence (Hap ki Do, really only has effective kicks, which are usually lower then teh chest) , and high/jumping kicks give you awesome balance.

Although, i must admit they don't teach enough about what to do if your facing another MA, but, come on, TKD isn't ALL high ineffective kicks, and we know which kicks are ineffective (i do anyways) and i wouldn't dream of using them on the street. Just because we learn them doesn't mean That all of us use them.

but, tkd seems to give all their students the impression that they are the best, and they can take out anyone, bit too cocky really. The sparring in tkd sucks, i believe if we did less useless kicks, and more training on the effective kicks/hand movements taht we DO learn, and have a more realistic sparring program, tkd could move up in the ranks.

[Lizard]

"Just because we learn them doesn't mean That all of us use them."

Perhaps you could stop learning what you never intend to use?

Keep a few high kicks to improve balance and flexibility but the completely useless ones could be got rid of.

"The sparring in tkd sucks, i believe if we did less useless kicks, and more training on the effective kicks/hand movements taht we DO learn, and have a more realistic sparring program, tkd could move up in the ranks."

Perhaps you're right but you'd have to have some grappling, ground fighting, learning to cope with adrenaline and you might have to alter some of your moves to make them more effecient (like the karate style blocking and static stances).

Perhaps you'll be the founder of a new style of street TKD.

[BadgerFu57]

[i]but, tkd seems to give all their students the impression that they are the best, and they can take out anyone, bit too cocky really. The sparring in tkd sucks, i believe if we did less useless kicks, and more training on the effective kicks/hand movements taht we DO learn, and have a more realistic sparring program, tkd could move up in the ranks. [/B]

I totally agree. The thing must people don't realize is how hard the Koreans train. Anyone who runs 10 miles a day and kicks for 2 hours is going to have a conditioning advantage. But McDojos endurance workouts are nothing more than aerobics in Gi's (I guess they are called Doboks in TKD).

If the sparring were to be more realistic, you would have to take out a lot of rules, making it more dangerous. I find TKD is very "family" oriented. My Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class is not. Not to say they aren't nice or something at BJJ, but your going to be chest to chest, sweating all over each other, getting down in dirty. I think I offend the TKD people because I sweat so much lol.

I would say the rules that need to at the minimum be changed in sparring are:
Kicks below the waste - legal
Face punches - legal
Back kicks - legal

And maybe some degree of groundfighting. At least takedowns. I saw an oriental kickboxing thing (similar to muay thai, except one guy trained at a buddhist temple or something) and takedowns were allowed. He slammed the crap out of the other guy.

But I am no expert. Just some thoughts.

[Manufest]

Originally posted by Lizard

Perhaps you'll be the founder of a new style of street TKD.

You never know.......

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Manufest
hmmm i think everyone assumes that all people in tkd use all high ineffective kicks. There are many effective low kicks, and at my dojang we pratice alot of low kicks for self defence (Hap ki Do, really only has effective kicks, which are usually lower then teh chest) , and high/jumping kicks give you awesome balance.

Although, i must admit they don't teach enough about what to do if your facing another MA, but, come on, TKD isn't ALL high ineffective kicks, and we know which kicks are ineffective (i do anyways) and i wouldn't dream of using them on the street. Just because we learn them doesn't mean That all of us use them.

With all due respect, TKD low kicks don't do much either. The mechanics are the same as the high kicks which lack power. My friend got his nose broken using the TKD low kick. He used the low TKD round kick which snapes at the knee joint... The other guy merely shrugged it off and landed a cross right on the nose. The low side kick doesn't fair much better against a bent knee stance.

The MT low kick works much better because you follow right through with all your power.

In regards to Korean TKD, I don't care how long you train... Throwing 1000 kicks in mid-air does not develop power. Throwing 500 kicks on a banana bag does. The key is to put your hip and leg into it.

[Manufest]

1) at my tkd, we do follow through

2) we hit low heavy bags

again, just because you've seen someone who sucks doesn't mean we all suck

[BadgerFu57]

I tried to be nice about TKD

but after researching, the founder never got in streetfights. He only kicked things that didn't kick back. No wonder he didn't know it sucked.

[takeshitoyama]

Originally posted by Robert G
I am pretty sure no one has ever lumped TKD into the effective category. Putting your foot above your head for any reason is generally a bad idea. Trying to lump TKD in with JJ is rather silly. And saying TKD is somehow different from Karate shows a little historical naivette, don't you think? TKD is a very modern institution, not something that can be traced back hundreds and hundreds of years.

Putting your foot above your head can be effective, an axe kick that lands on your oppenents head can do some serious damage, and lumping TKD with JJ isnt all that silly, they both practice throws and TKD is anything but modern IT can be traced back hundreds of hundreds of years Many historians have traced Taekwondo's origins as far back as the Koguryo Dynasty (37 B.C.-668 A.D.), during which 'Tae Kyon,' an ancient form of the martial art, flourished. During the Silla Dynasty (57 B.C.-936 A.D.), forms of Tae Kyon were practiced by the Hwarang ('flowering youthä), an elite troupe of aristocratic warriors, who practiced martial arts as a way of life and who were closely associated with the king and his court. Also besides Judo, Tae Kwon Do is the only olympic martial art which certainly says that it is an effective martial art and can still be pretty.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by BadgerFu57


I saw an oriental kickboxing thing (similar to muay thai, except one guy trained at a buddhist temple or something) and takedowns were allowed. He slammed the crap out of the other guy.

san shou

[eXcessiveForce]

Reminds me of when Great Sage started posting here.

[spiderchoke]

hello.....................................


Hello.......................

HELLO.......................


Oh, yeah.......... um..............I would like a large original crust, with............................um.................................uh..............................h am and bacon..............................no...............make that ..............................beef and bacon.................................................................AND........................... .......some wings........................HOT! wings..........................................That's all.


Thanks
bye