Top ten reasons to master the Guard Postion

[GuardMaster]

1) If you get in a real fight and breaks someone's arm or choke them to death, it looks good to say I was helpless on my back!

2) Its a great way to impress girls. What could be more spectacular than a bjj man kicking ass from the bottom. Just pull off a whole bunch of armlocks and triangle chokes.

3) You can defeat people much bigger and stronger than you if you work on this position. Why only win fights against guys your size and strength?

4) You have perfect balance. Why not take your opponent off balance, and let him expend energy while you rest always in base?

5) A great guard can pass as a complete tool for fighting. You can defend, you can attack, you can rest, and you can strike, all while expending little energy and remaining perfectly balanced. How many other positions give you so much versatility?

6) If you're in a real fight its unlikely that the man on top will be seen at a disadvantage, since the general public will think he's winning. This may save you from getting a beer bottle cracked over your head by your opponents friends!

7) Since most fights end up on the ground... it may be smarter to GO to your back and do it slowly to avoid the damage that may be caused by a takedown by a bigger, stronger guy. A nice way to make friends with the cement, and get in position to kick ass!

8) It makes juijitsu FUN! Imagine only practicing m.a. for that 1% chance that you'll get into a real assault situation? Why not give grappling a more broader meaning? Being a great fighter is good motivation. Being a great submissions acrobat is a life long pursuit!

9) Its a great way to humiliate someone. Imagine what the general public would think of a big strong guy begging for release by some scrawny guard master whose caught him in the triangle? His girl may think he's half a man! Why hurt him when you can humiliate him? To think you not only kicked a bigger guys ass but did it while laying on your back!

10) You can easily bait 99% of the public to play your game. Most people will pick being on top and coming at you. If you're in a fight, that will certainly be the case. Why not master a game most people will be willing to play.



Just having a little fun here guys!

GuardMaster

[Mr. Miyagi]

Gee dude, do you train? Have you never had a more advanced student blow by your guard and finish your ass off? I've had my guard passed too many times to remember and I dread to think of what would happen if the person in my guard were allowed to strike me.
Watching Royce and others use the guard is one thing, but if you don't train vale tudo then don't think your guard is ready to use in a real fight. If you are a real fighter then I apologize, you come off as a very naive poster though.

[SweepEm]

:O

[Yawn]

[Biz]

***7) Since most fights end up on the ground... it may be smarter to GO to your back and do it slowly to avoid the damage that may be caused by a takedown by a bigger, stronger guy. A nice way to make friends with the cement, and get in position to kick ass! ***

You know, I hear this a lot on this board 'most fights end up on the ground'. But in every fight I've been in, the only person on the ground was my opponent

But seriously, only once in my whole life has it been on the ground, and that's when I was about 7 years old and we were sitting on the ground playing video games (we fought over the controller, lol)... And yeah, I really did send the other's to the ground...

[duchman]

It the street no one is going to pass your guard they are going to grab your nuts.

[GuardMaster]

Lack of confidence in the guard

You guys sound like you have a LACK of CONFIDENCE in the guard position. This only happens if your WEAK there.

If you have a good guard you could make it a nightmare to pass. Especially if you reverse the position or submit. I didn't say you sit there on your back for half an hour on the street

If in a street fight the guy wants to punch.. I can kick his face in from the guard position. I can batter his kidneys into oblivion. I can elbow his head till hes out. Remember your can strike effectively from this position too. The guard must be practiced for different purposes.. sport, vale tudo and street

If he wants to grab my nuts he will get caught in my triangle choke. After he's out (if he's not dead) i'll take his elbow off the socket. Once he wakes up he'll be in pain... lots of it and unlikely to attack me again... Even if he did he'd be a cripple.


Now does the guard position still sound weak? Perhaps the inexperienced in it will panic, and that's their downfall. I said master the guard, not try to use it if you don't know what you're doing!


GuardMaster

[Mata-Leão]

Having someone in your guard is definitely better than being in the defensive position of the cross-mount or the top-mount, but it has serious limitations -- in NHB or street fight.

Mario Sperry and Pedro Carvalho both refer to being in the guard as being in hell. Against a bigger and stronger guy it would probably be preferable to squirm your way back to your feet, remain in the clinch, and then either break away quickly and get the hell out of there or try for a sweep and a top position.

I agree that the guy who started this thread has never trained Vale Tudo. When you've done some semi-realistic NHB sparring, you realize just how dificult the guard is to master.

Incidentally, I did some light NHB sparring yesterday morning with a guy who was a collegiate wrestler and who has just barely started training in BJJ. I didn't have a PRAYER of getting a top position on this guy (he took me to my back with no effort at all), and the only option I had was the guard. He couldn't really keep me from putting him in my guard, but I spent the whole time feeling just like Sperry and Carvalho say: like I was in hell. It took every ounce of effort and tons of concentration to keep him off ballance enough that he couldn't unload on me. I can guarantee that I was working harder than him. Moreover, although i have a good guard, it is a lot harder to put submissions on someone from the guard when they aren't wearing a gi.

I understand what this guy is saying: "Become a master of the guard" and I'm obviously not. However, why become a master of the guard and purposefully go into the weakest of offensive positions, when you can become a master of the entire game and settle for the guard only when you're overwhelmed.

If I were taking peoples' opinions on this subject, I'd definitely go with Mario's or Pedro's over anyone less experienced. However, I don't have to go with anyone's opinion, because I know from experience that the guard is a fall-back position, and it shouldn't be your first choice in a real fight.

Now, in a competition grappling match where the only thing you have to lose is the game, I say do whatever you like. If you can beat him from the guard, go for it. In a competition, his girlfriend (who you assume will be standing around and watching in a real fight) isn't going to sprint onto the mat and kick you in the head.

[Edited by Mata-Leão on 11-12-2000 at 01:40 PM]

[keithws]

Why train BJJ then????

Would I prefer using guard over full mount or side mount? No! But, to simply say putting someone in your guard in a fight is a definite disadvantage is wrong also.

The fact of the matter is, your odds of facing a good grappler in a street fight are incredibly slim. In fact, the odds of you facing a martial artist in general are slim. Most people don't train, and that includes the ass holes you end up fighting.

If you have any ability with the guard, you can definitely take advantage over your average person. How freaking easy is it to sweep an inexperienced grappler or some one who doesn't have grappling experience. EXTREMELY!

Now I haven't been in a fight while training BJJ, but my buddy has on several occassions when he was younger. He's the equilavent of a good blue and he's injured a few people from the guard in fights. He uses an excellent closed guard and stays very tight when we train. He's also trained in Karate and Judo, so his style might be more vale tudo oriented which explains his ability to avoid punishment in the guard.

I would just hope all this effort I put in training and using the guard isn't a waste of time. That would suck. But then again, BJJ fighters get their asses kicked by everyone in NHB these days so maybe my choice of fighting styles is wrong.

later.......

[Patterson]

I remember not long ago guard master came to the forum asking if there were any good videos on the guard. I don't think he has ever trained.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Kiethws, I agree with most of what you said, but you would be crazy to go to the guard in a street fight. If you don't train vale tudo then you will be at risk for getting punched, even by a guy who doesn't train. So you armbar the guy eventually but you get a black eye for your efforts? The good bjj/vale tudo fighters make a sincere effort to be the one that gets the takedown, not to be the guy on the bottom. Royce only pulled guard if he couldn't take someone down, otherwise he did his best to be on top.

[keithws]

I agree Miyagi!

Don't get me wrong. There are definitely better positions for fighting than using the guard.

I just believe the guard can be an advantages in a fight if you happen to end up on the bottom.

later dude.....

[GuardMaster]

Videos?

Patterson. You seem to make illogical conclusions on me. Sure I ask for videos. M.A. is a constantly learning experience and I'll always like to better my techniques.

I've trained MMA for a while (about 3-4 years) and have migrated to the BJJ in particular. My belief is that a strong suit is always better than a jack of all trades.

Since I'm no Royce and haven't had the luxury of 29 years to train, I prefer to specialize in a single area where I can achieve great proficiency over the next 10 years.

This area is the one position that can be used to rest, strike, submit and defend while remaining in PERFECT balance.

GuardMaster

[Oberleutnant]

I'm beginning to have trouble determining whether or not this is guy's a troll or just dillusional.

[bjjstylist]

I don't know if Guard Master is a troll or not but here's my two cents...

Considering that the average guy would probably never achieve the top position on a guy like Dan Severn, Mark Kerr or Mark Coleman, I don't really see any choice but to learn an effective guard. I've heard Sperry say he doesn't want to be in the guard, but if a 350 pound guy tackles you on the street, you very well might not have a choice. If you're not able to get up, and you can't reverse him, what choice do you have than to fight him from your back?

Royce didn't have any choice but to fight Severn from his back the ENTIRE FIGHT... Severn would probably give his back out of instinct before he would let himself get mounted... Look at Murilo Bustamante vs. Tom Erikson...

Having a great game from all positions is vital, and necessary if you want to succeed in today's NHB arena. I started learning BJJ because I saw a skinny little brazilian dude in the UFC fight off his BACK. Wouldn't most of you guys agree that there is nothing more impressive than watching a skilled and technical BJJ fighter submit a guy from the guard?

Didn't Helio Gracie redefine and work extensively from the guard position and train all his fighters to be able to fight and TRIUMPH from such an awkward position? Isn't that the trademark and essence of a superior brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter?




[Edited by bjjstylist on 11-12-2000 at 10:58 PM]

[Mr. Miyagi]

Of course he's a troll, but he made a mistake, by coming back and posting again on his own topic. It was a fun discussion anyway.