grappling/bjj in a streetfight Q.

[stickman]

Hi all, first of all, I'm new, so here's some brief info on me to keep your boredom down to a minimum!

Well, first up, my name. I called myself stickman coz I'm REAL skinney (6ft 2 and 136lb! and 19yrs old). Basically I got tired of being skinney and soft and having no idea how to defend myself should I ever be in a fight, so I decided I want to start martial arts, both for getting in shape and self defence. So when I go to sheffield Uni this sept. I hope to take up BJJ at the royce Gracie institute over there.

So, now, my question. I'm interested in a 'realistic' martial art that will actually be of good use if I ever get into a nasty confrontation with some1. My first thoughts went to Kung Fu and mixing it with JKD, but after doing a little bit of surfing I kept coming across this BJJ stuff which every1 seems to be praising.

However, after seeing lots of photos and stuff, it seems that this is an art all about grappling, wrestling, etc (I guess closer to judo than JKD). and I was wondering why every1 is saying that this is the sort of ultimate streetfighting MA, coz some of those pics just look so complicated with all those arms and legs entangled and I can't imagine such a thing ever happening in a real fight with some drunken punk.

It seemed to my unprofessional, knowledgeless eyes that it is more sporty than practical. Am I wrong? I mean, I always thought that punches, blocks and kicks to the knees etc.. (Like JKD) would be what your after in a realistic self defence MA.

So I guess what I want to know is; would I be better off with a JKD type thing or a grappling MA like BJJ, chuck norris apparantly said in 6 months of bjj you can beat a black belt in any other MA, but that seems strange to me as black belts in all MAs vary enormously. In a NHB fight, wouldn't a good puncher/kicker (Like, say, Bruce Lee) beat a good grappler, coz a quick punch to the ribs or head, or a powerful kick to the knees seems to be a very effective technique, rather than 'now you put your foot there, and I'll move my hand here, now put your hand around my neck, put your weight on your left foot, I'm gonna apply pressure behind your left knee now, no, no not like that... up a bit...no, over there... move like this etc...etc..' I guess I'm saying from the pictures I saw that BJJ seems kind of coreographed/sporty, am I wrong? it wouldn't be the 1st time!

is there punching and kicking in BJJ?

I look foward to any comments clarifying for me:
1. why BJJ/grappling is so good in a street fight
2. the difference between BJJ and JKD and which would be 'superior' in a fight.

From the above, you can probably tell:
1. I've never got close to even being near to being in any kind of fight, ever
2. I know 0 about MA
3. I could do with a bit of clarification in pretty much everything!

thanks for any help folks, i need it and look foward to reading replies.

OOOF! I just realised how long that post was!, I probably repeated the same thing like a million times, a million times I say, yes, I probably repeated things a million times, my repetion must have been around the million mark, indeed repeating a lot, repeating, repeating, repeating. a million times! oh! the repetion!

I used to be a parrot but I'm alright now.
I used to be a parrot but I'm alright now.
I used to be a parrot but I'm alright now.

anyway, I'll shut up now you've all had a taste of my high class, 1st grade humour.

thanks for tolerating me 4this long!

Tha Stickman!

[Szczepankiewicz]

This is the most intricate, well thought out, well written style vs style thread I've seen. Yet, it still asks all the same quesitons that have been asked on this forum since the very beginning...


The answers you will get on this forum will be simple opinions based on perception. Do with them what you will. Personally, I don't trust my life in the hands of folks like Lizard and Falcon.

This article will give you a good starting point for your journey.

Now, to things I CAN address:

I guess I'm saying from the pictures I saw that BJJ seems kind of coreographed/sporty

BJJ is sport oriented as you see it. However, the same principles that make BJJ an effective sport art can make it an effective self defense art. IT IS NOT COREOGRPAHED in any way.

chuck norris apparantly said in 6 months of bjj you can beat a black belt in any other MA

I would say that Chuck Norris is either wrong or misquoted. CHUCK NORRIS could train for six months (with all his experience and training) and possibly lay the smack down in 6 months....
However, I've trained with enough newbies in BJJ to realize that they have problems dealing with people just like everyone else.

is there punching and kicking in BJJ?

Ummm Yeah.

If you are really interested in getting your feet wet, absent of actually taking classes (I know... until Uni starts) then go to www.jiu-jitsu.net and get BJJ: The Master Text. It is by far the best technical manual on BJJ made to date. PLUS Aranha is selling them for $10 US to make way for MT 2, the Return of Seinfeld!

Ok, stickman, you've exhausted your quota for silly and obvious questions all in one post.

I'm watching you!

Spanky

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Personally, I don't trust my life in the hands of folks like Lizard and Falcon.

Puahahaha... I'm really starting to like this guy Spanky... Funny guy he is.

Stickman, or sticky (can I call you sticky?)

I'm fairly new to BJJ as well, but from the onlooks it's a very good martial art. Don't let looks fool you... The effective arts don't look like much, but they're more functional than they are pretty.

The reason BJJ is an effective art is because most people, even trained strikers lack knowledge in effective grappling principles and techniques. Most guys, once on the ground or in a submission hold, will panick or give you their back in an attempt to flee... big mistake in grappling.

If you want an art you can enjoy and have fun with, join Tae Kwon Do... There are actually girls in dojangs. However, if you're serious about martial arts, go for BJJ, Muay Thai or other intense self-defense systems.

Good luck and welcome to the forum,
Great Sage

[Lizard]

"I don't trust my life in the hands of folks like Lizard and Falcon"

Well at least I'm famous for something.

If you want to learn to fight then there are other things besides what style you do to consider.

You might want to start eating more and doing some weightlifting or something.

I once read somewhere that Most street fights don't last more than 5-10 seconds but if they last longer than that it will probably go to the ground. A few simple effective strikes (suck as rear hand palm strikes, elbows, knees), some takedowns (like those found in western wrestling) and some BJJ groundfighting is probably a good idea.

Psychology is also important. If you have never been in a fight before you will get a lot of adrenalin and you might not be able to fight back effectively. If at all possible do some adrenaline training or something.

Thai bri (a member of the forum) does something called Combatives which I beleive is supposed to be very effective for real life self defense. I hope he posts a reply. But be careful, he can say some very hurtful things.

[Szczepankiewicz]

he can say some very hurtful things.

He's nuthin' but a big giant british meanie!

Haw Haw Haw!

[Mr. Heel Hook]

1. why BJJ/grappling is so good in a street fight

Why it is so good (if you want to put it like that) is because many many street-fights end up on the ground. What that translates to is if you are there, and they are there, they will be lost in the sea and you will be the shark. If you have the ability to defend yourself in that style, it is a whole other world for them

2. The difference between BJJ and JKD and which would be 'superior' in a fight.

I would say BJJ, but that's because I study it.


The thing about grappling arts to me is that anyone can do them. It isn't about strength, nor speed, nor other such factors. Wrestling around is something primal and instinctive to humans. Look at kids at play. look how they wrestle each other and have some odd sense of balance to it; how they know how to twist and turn and tumble. It is just something in humans. If I was you, I would go and try a few classes at the GJJ academy and see how you like it.

[Thai Bri]

I know its all been said before, but here goes.

One on one? No weapons involved? Then BJJ is hard to beat.

Is there a possibility he will have a friend? Or a knife? Then BJJ may well get you killed.

Guess what. If self defence/protection if what you're after, you won't get to choose the arena or circumstances in which you fight. Sure, make BJJ part of your arsenal. But don't make it all you've got.

[Tom Yum]

BJJ is good for self defense situations that are one on one in which a struggle ensues and ends up on the ground.

Judo and San Soo are good at dominating the takedown and slamming your assailant head first onto the ground. Hapkido and San Soo also work on stand up finishing moves - arm bars, neck crank variations, standing choke variations and combining wrist locks with elbow/shoulder locks.

Jeet Kune Do, Muay Thai, Kali and other 'stand up' arts are excellent at maximum damage in minimal time where there may be an unknown number of assailants or where weapons (sticks or knives) are introduced.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Hate to break this to you guys...but BJJ has disarming techniques as well...

[Szczepankiewicz]

but BJJ has disarming techniques as well...

I'll let it slip a little here. In the Hapkido seminar we had, someone asked about Hapkido weapon disarms.

Our instructor said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the best thing to do is find weapon with longer range and retrograde to an escape route.

You can disarm someone with a knife or a gun provided they are a complete idiot.

To demonstrate, the instructor said "Ok. Disarm me" and proceeded to slash, stab and move like a deranged lunatic. NOT a situation that lends itself to a slick little disarming trick.

One things for sure, if I pulled a weapon on you, I'm going to do everything can to make sure you're dog meat prior to giving you a chance to think about how you will disarm me.

I hear stories about people who pull a gun on a bad guy and then the bad guy takes it away and shoots them. IFF I deploy, you have about .005 seconds before the blade is cutting or the bullets are coming out of the barrel.

Of course that's all just tough idealistic talk on my part, as I have never EVER shot at or cut someone.


Spanky

[Tom Yum]

you mean hapkido teaches realistic self-defense? Not that Korean Martial Arts are taught at West Point or anything

OK, tell us more of your seminar!!

[Szczepankiewicz]

It was hot!

It lasted 8.5 hours (inclusive)!

It was the best seminar I've ever attended!

[Mr. Heel Hook]

I am unsure what you were trying to tell me there...but sure...

[stickman]

well, thanks for your responses so far chaps.

Szczepankiewicz, I found your comments and that articles quite helpful.

I would like a few more comments (If any1's willing to oblige), on the JKD vs BJJ question I've got rolling around in that vast, empty crevice between my ears.

How do you all think a Bruce Lee type fighting character would last against a top class grappler? Isn't it the case that JKD was supposed to have combined all effective elements of all styles? but is it lacking in grappling?

I agree with the comment by thai bri that one shouldn't make bjj all he has. and also the comment that most fights end in like less than a minute. To that end, I wonder if I'm correct in saying that against a regular thug, or group of thugs (say with very little or no MA knowledge/training/skill) a JKD standing style and fast punching/blocking/kicking MA would be better. For eg, does BJJ teach me strikes to the knees, throat, groin etc...
is JKD pretty much 'anything goes, no holds barred, eliminate enemy by whatever means, ASAP'?

To what extent is such an attitude existant in BJJ? is BJJ sort of 'take them to the ground, and THEN...'

rather than,

''quickly end it while they're standing, so there's little or no chance of it going to the ground'

Szczepankiewicz, if I have gone beyond my quota of obvious/repetetive Qs, then I guess I'm in the overdraft zone by now! don't worry, I'll pay you back my quota, with interest, once I've got enough knowledge to be of any use to any1!

cheers chaps, and btw, yes Great Sage, "stickman", "sticky", "sticker" and any other inventive variations you can think of are all acceptable, After all, I've probably been called worse things than anything with 'stick' in the title! oh well, I guess that's just opened the floodgates!...Doh!

[Szczepankiewicz]

I am unsure what you were trying to tell me there...but sure...

The moral of the story, mate, is don't try any bullshit disarms when someone is trying to stick you with some steel.