gracie jujitsu book

[kevin green]

Ask the Gracies that if they know it all now what are thay going to know twenty years from now . Nobody knows it all. The Gracies deserve their respect I instantly saw a good Judo player in the first U.F.C. but they need work on their throwing . Ask them why they bow. They probably don 't have a clue . Maybe their father deserved to be called master but the other ones are not done learning ,nobody that is still breathing knows it all.
I personally think that the Gracies are master promoters
but they don't have a monopoly on jujitsu.
If american wern't so caught up in the classical aspects of Judo they would rule but it keeps them looking other places for guidance. Americans didn't even place in Judo in the last Olympics
and thats proof positive that something very basic is wrong. The Gracies teach that classical standing still throwing . But thats not their forte. Everybody looks to the Gracies or to the Brazilians but they are teaching old fashioned stuff tailored to their way of fighting .
Compare the americans to an individual that fails to develop himself inwardly and is always looking outside himself ,to others for the answers. While the whole time the answers lie within!

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by kevin green
Ask the Gracies that if they know it all now what are thay going to know twenty years from now . Nobody knows it all. The Gracies deserve their respect I instantly saw a good Judo player in the first U.F.C. but they need work on their throwing . Ask them why they bow. They probably don 't have a clue . Maybe their father deserved to be called master but the other ones are not done learning ,nobody that is still breathing knows it all.
I personally think that the Gracies are master promoters
but they don't have a monopoly on jujitsu.

I’m not quite sure I follow you... Your grammar is very misleading. I don’t recall any Gracie, or person for that matter, claiming to know everything. BJJ is a constantly evolving martial art and 20 years from now, I believe it will still be effective.

Originally posted by kevin green
If american wern't so caught up in the classical aspects of Judo they would rule but it keeps them looking other places for guidance. Americans didn't even place in Judo in the last Olympics
and thats proof positive that something very basic is wrong. The Gracies teach that classical standing still throwing . But thats not their forte. Everybody looks to the Gracies or to the Brazilians but they are teaching old fashioned stuff tailored to their way of fighting .

No doubt America could be a powerhouse in Martial Arts, but our society is much different than other countries. We’re all caught up in so many things, that developing a martial arts seems trivial compared to the many intricacies of life.

In regards to the Gracies... I don’t agree that they’re old-fashioned or classical at all. If anything, they’re innovative. BJJ doesn’t incorporate many throws because they don’t really work for the average individual. I couldn’t imagine attempting a “Wheel” throw. Their “style” is tailored to ground fighting using leverage and technique.

Originally posted by kevin green
Compare the americans to an individual that fails to develop himself inwardly and is always looking outside himself ,to others for the answers. While the whole time the answers lie within!

Did you think of this all by yourself... I hope you have a day job.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Oh God, here we go with some more Great Sage crap... Listen, I know you get upset about people having their own opinion and it differing from yours but get over it. Maybe this is a good reason to get a shrink or something of the such.

Isn't this you?

"I was getting ready to ground and pound some Tai Chi when my instructor arrived and put an end to the whole incident. He told me it was pointless and not good for the training center. I left feeling weird that Tai Chi people felt that they're techniques were so damn great... Tai Chi... yeah right."

All that because you got into an argument? Maybe it was a bit heated or whatever but you wanted to "ground and Pound" (which by-the-way BJJ/GJJ people don't really do.) because you got into an argument about an art. Isn't that ironic...don't cha think... that our loyalty on a message board amuses you? But, thing is, I am slightly more amused you wanted to beat someone up because they thought Tai Chi was better; that's what I call humor, young man.
It's a shame I don't get as irate as you do, or maybe I would ground n pound you for calling my friend, my fiancee, and myself a stooge. But I am not sure that I could, I mean all those sweeps are wicked easy for you -- AND you are clearly the master of the half guard and other such things that were simple in the book; that's why it wasn't put in, they knew you were too good! (Too simple for a beginner in BJJ...I bet Royce blue belts you as soon as you walk through the door. How lucky!)

Again, you brought a perfectly good post down with your name calling and bashing of other people and their thoughts on things. Wonderful job, putz!
I know it's hard for you to swallow other peoples opinions, and even harder to swallow some humility (that is if you were half as smart as you pretend to be) but could you at least swallow some mentos? That diarea-of-the-mouth is getting way out of control now...

PS: Make sure to tell Royce you think he can't compete anymore in MMA.

PSS: You suck at your job, get a new one.

PSSS:

[MrBoxerGrappler]

That's me yawning if you couldn't tell. Sage you really need to make up your mind where you stand point is on the issue of GJJ in the first place...In that last post you just made you completly contradicted half of your arument from previous posts...I think your a very confused little man..


As far as "Grounding and Pounding" some Tai Chi practicioners. 90% of me says that you pulled that entire story out of your behind being that a conversation like that in general would go against most of the basic principles you learn in tai chi.(Yes I have taken it..part of an anger management thing I had to do.) I could understand one student maybe having words with you but the whole class while the instructor was present? A little far fetched.


P.S.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook
All that because you got into an argument? Maybe it was a bit heated or whatever but you wanted to "ground and Pound" (which by-the-way BJJ/GJJ people don't really do.) because you got into an argument about an art. Isn't that ironic...don't cha think... that own loyalty on a message board amuses you? But I am slightly more amused you wanted to beat someone up because they thought Tai Chi was better; that's what I call humor, young man.
It's a shame I don't get as irate as you do, or maybe I would ground n pound you for calling my friend, my fiancee, and myself a stooge. But I am not sure that I could, I mean all those sweeps are wicked easy for you -- AND you are clearly the master of the half guard and other such things that were simple in the book; that's why it wasn't put in, they knew you were too good! (Too simple for a beginner in BJJ...I bet Royce blue belts you as soon as you walk through the door. How lucky!)

Seriously, you got problems, man... Why don’t you tell us all why you’re so upset that you have to follow me around trying to prove your point? Is it because you couldn’t defend your own argument...? Gee, that’s too bad. Perhaps if you learned a little about debating and rebuttal, you might do better next time.

As I recall, I gave my opinion and reasons why I didn’t think the book was great. What did you do? Simply attack my statements without any constructive thought... Wow, you’re real mature.

When did I say sweeps were easy? At least have some credibility in your arguments.... I asked why they weren’t included? As of yet, you haven’t presented anything to justify your opinion that the book was good. If so, then what?

It’s so obvious you’re losing it man... Why else would you feel the need to constantly retort my posts and paste qoutes to discredit me? And now you want to fight, right? Yeah, let’s fight genius... I’m gonna fight with a guy on the internet.

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook
Again, you brought a perfectly good post down with your name calling and bashing of other people and their thoughts on things. Wonderful job, putz!

Yeah... I was really bashing people’s ideas by giving my ideas on why the book wasn’t so great. I wonder what you consider an insult—two people looking at each other...

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook
I know it's hard for you to swallow other peoples opinions, and even harder to swallow some humility (that is if you were half as smart as you pretend to be) but could you at least swallow some mentos? That diarea-of-the-mouth is getting way out of control now...

Do me a favor, stop posting in regards to my posts if you don’t like it. As of today, I could give a crap about what you have to say.

PS — I’ll tell Royce Gracie that some guy on the internet is throwing a fit because I don’t agree with him.... That’s a load of laughs.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler


That's me yawning if you couldn't tell. Sage you really need to make up your mind where you stand point is on the issue of GJJ in the first place...In that last post you just made you completly contradicted half of your arument from previous posts...I think your a very confused little man..

No I can’t tell if you’re yawning, because I’m never quite sure which end is your ass or mouth. I haven’t contradicted anything. I used a figure of speech in regards to you and your friends because you were arguing as if you didn’t defend that Gracie book, it would jeopardize BJJ. I never said I wouldn’t stand up for BJJ. I said it myself, I don’t have a problem with BJJ, but the book isn’t good.

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
:As far as "Grounding and Pounding" some Tai Chi practicioners. 90% of me says that you pulled that entire story out of your behind being that a conversation like that in general would go against most of the basic principles you learn in tai chi.(Yes I have taken it..part of an anger management thing I had to do.) I could understand one student maybe having words with you but the whole class while the instructor was present? A little far fetched.

P.S.

Tai Chi teaches humilaty so everyone who studies Tai Chi is humble and obedient... Gee, they should offer Tai Chi to prisoners. I mean these people are repeat offenders who have undergone therapy, and professional consultation... But keep breaking the law. However, if a Tai Chi class that meets 3 times a week can make a person humble and inoffensive... Why not?

I have a better idea... Why don’t you take your 90% and donate that to charity. Then live with the 10% that actually has some use. Either way, let’s not ruin this forum for the other members... I don’t intend to post in your regards anymore... Do the same for me.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

What reality do you live in Sage? Whereve Nowhere USA is they have a strange grasp on what it takes to "defend" your opinion. And this is in all honesty...I have seen you tak about five "debates" on now...two of which I have been involved in.

Now usually a debate involves taking someones points, and using facts to discredit it. What you do is take someones point and attempt to discredit it with your own opinion while calling them names and trying to prove how intelligent you are by using big words.

Take this post for example...

1. You gave your opinon why the book was not "good"
2. People told you why they disagreed and gave their reasons.
3. You came back and said it was not good, did not make note of what reasons they gave and just spit out your reasons again..


You are the one that needs to brush up on your debate skills junior. The fact of the matter is simple...Every post with you on it is the same...you trying to overbear people with your opinion and never admiting for one second that someone else might have a point(Which I have done with you numerous times) and never stoping to consider for even a second that some one actually may be GOD forbid correct and you may be wrong.

The realization that you still haven't come to is that you sir are a JACKASS...you jumped on number 18, calling her a stoodge for expressing her opinion, there was no need for that, and then you come back and say you didn't insult anyone? You have this problem where you constantly double talk...

Anyway I am done until you say something else for me to bagger you about.


P.S.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

YOU GOD DAMN MO-RON!


What are you bent out of shape now becuase I called you on your BS lie? Are you mad becuase there was no possible way that an entire class of tai chi students like you claimed lashed out on you? Are you that hard up for attention? Becuase if you are you should really do a little research before you come on a martial arts board and make claims that clearly have nothing behind them. I am glad you don't intend to post anymore becuase your an AHOLE! The fact is your story was BS plain and simple..


Oh and I like the way you never insult people...the whole ass or mouth coment was classic, I haven't heard that since the sixth grade, I am sure you are sitting behind your computer pushing up your horn rimmed glasses while chuckling and snorting at that one cause it was so funny.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

I have problems? Wow, that's news to me... I wonder what they could be. And I can't defend my own argument? Plus!!? I have to learn how to debate. Man, I guess I do have problems ... no wait. I did all of the above. I think you are superimposing me with you. The fact of the matter is is that you have a hard time believing anyone else but what you conjure up with your meager ideas on life and MA in general.
I never attacked you on this post, it was more like a "wow, that's ood, what are you talking about" and of course, you being you, got hyper defensive about it and exploded with that vast array of bullshiet you love to flaunt.
Oh, you are correct, you didn't say the sweeps were easy, you said there weren't any from the half guard. A mistake on my part I suppose. (Wow, look at that, I admitted I was wrong. If I was you, and the situation was the same, I would have lied or something to cover it up. Now I know it's kind of a flight of fancy by even insinuating that you could make a mistake, but bare with me.)
Well, anyhoot, I "justified" my OPINION that the book was good in this paragraph:

"Useless? I don't know about that. The book has some excellent techniques in it that should be practiced a bit. But regardless of the move count and so forth, you can never get anywhere unless you spar a whole bunch. Knowing moves and doing them well are two different things. I suppose it is just nice to have a small encyclopedia lying around to look at every once in a while."

The part where it has "some excellent techniques" and " it's nice to have an encyclopedia lying around" I realize that you don't think what I said was valid, so maybe that's why you became an ass once again, but the fact of the matter is their are excellent moves in there regardless how haphazardly they are categorized ... or whatever crap you said.

Now, I realize you have some kind of all important godlike complex ... seeing as you are such a great sage and all ... but I wasn't following you, I was simply making a small remark. None of which were really that abrasive. (*cough* self confidence problem much???) But, if you want to believe that, it's fine by me. I don't mind taking you under my wing, junior.

Lets see, what else to you craptasticaly post on your retort... Oh, I see...

You bashed people by fragrantly attacking them yet again because you didn't like their opinions. It's crazy how backwards you are. You accuse every one of doing what you are the master of.


PS: I never said I wanted to fight you really. I was just pointing out how much of an ass you were because you wanted to pound n ground someone because they thought differently than you. How logical that is of you, rocket scientist.

PSS: OK, you tell Royce that, and like I said before, tell him how you think he can't compete anymore. I really don't know why you are going to train under a hack like him. (More or less, those are your words.)

PSSS: putz...

[number18]

Man...Great Sage, you are looking NO good.

It's so obvious you're just a novice in BJJ. Why? Cause you've stated you're a beginner, and yet you go around, making these [SARCASM]great and insightful[/SARCASM] comments about the art's techniques, as though what you're saying is the TRUTH and to be taken as fact. And you're saying all this just to sound like you know something and impress people. You and I are both white belts. The difference between you and I, though, is that you looooove talk about moves and all this other BS to try and sound intelligent and cool. And I don't. I take the art for what it is and don't try and sound all hoighty toighty about it. What's the point anyway? Yes, what's the point in calling a BJJ reference book "basically useless?" It's so god-awful obvious to me that you are just saying that to sound as though you're experienced in the art. You want people to go, oh yeah, Seiijisan sure knows what he's talking about! That guy's been at this martial arts stuff for years so his opinion on this MA that he's just started at must be something to hear!

"Unfortunately, you guys have not presented any reason to believe this book is remotely good"
Seiijisan, maybe you didn't notice all the factual statements from my previous post, giving answers to your mind-boggling gripes about. I won't bother to explain all of that again. Just go read my last post.

"If it’s a guide, why are the techniques simply scattered everywhere without any sequence of organization? "
Hmm...the techniques...are categorized...according to belt level! OMGWTFBBQ!@!!! WHAT AN IDEA?!@?!!!

"You say it’s a guide... If it is, it’s a bad one because as anyone knows, a purple belt basically knows every technique a black belt does. Putting techniques into belt sections is a bad way of referring to your own style, escpecially when it contradicts."
If a purple belt basically knows every technique a black belt does, what's the difference between the two? And how else would you categorize techniques? By type? Yeah, that's a decent idea, but what if the difficulty of that technique on page 3 really isn't worth a white belt's time? How would a person know? What if a white belt should be focusing on the basic technique on page 2 instead of this different one that purple belts use on page 3? That's why the techniques are categorized by belt.

Look, Seiijisan. I like the book. You are telling people it's useless like that's the truth. It's not useless if I find it helpful or if anyone else does, for that matter. So stop yammering on. And seriously, if you respect the Gracies, you should have no problem telling Royce you think he's all washed up as far as the MMA circuit goes...in a respectful way. You should have no problem at all. Am I right?

Oh, and I would like it if you tried for once responding to my questions instead of just attacking me personally. Thanks. <3

[kevin green]

One way to improve on the book would be to have a C.D.Rom with it. Its alot better to see it moving!
Plus stick to the issue girls.

[number18]

I would but we're looking nooooo good.

http://homestarrunner.com/tgsmenu.html

The CD rom idea is nice.