Ninjitsu Training

[blade_cs]

Hi all, I was wondering if you could offer your training experiences on Ninjutsu.

Right now, I am deciding to take either Ninjitsu or Hapkido. I know quite a lot about Hapkido, but none about Ninjitsu (except that it's also claimed to be a complete art). The reason I'm into MA is for pure self defense.

Btw, I posted this for knowledge only, so I can choose the right art. I'm not here to bash any MA.

Thanks for your time.

[RobertG]

If those are your only two choices, then I'd say Hapkido. But are those your only two choices? Some of what I've seen of Hapkido isn't too bad. But those damn reverse punches drive me crazy.

If, and this is a big if, you were able to find an authentic ninjitsu school, it would not be self-defense oriented. Ninja were bushi deployed deep in enemy territory for various covert operations. As such their skill set would have been primarily oriented towards weapons and assasination. Such an operative would have been outnumbered, and hence, put into a potential "self-defense" situation would have simply killed themselves rather than risk capture. Hence, logic dictates that an authentic ninjitsu would be purely offensively oriented, and not useful for unarmed self-defense (but great if you like sneaking around and shanking people in the back...but if you like that sort of thing you have issues...). Ninjitsu was not one of the arts developed intensively during the Tokugawa era as these were non-essential skills in peacetime. Hence, I'd suggest going with one of the budo/bujitsu that were developed for the purposes of self-defense (e.g. judo/jujitsu/aikido/aikijutsu).

Since Hapkido is a relatively modern and has focused from the beginning on self-defense you'd be better served if that is your goal. And you'll get some wicked kicks too. However, if they teach you that punching from the hip reverse punch stuff, go learn some boxing somewhere and get some good hand skills.

[Half-Asleep]

i have trained in ninjitsu and i have friends training in hapkido from what i have had explained to me about hapkido and know about ninjitsu.

hapkido is more defence oriented it is hurting the person quickly so they can't fight back it teaches good stuff and is also very good for fitness.

Ninjitsu is killing or stopping the opponent form attacking u in as few movements as possible and is prolly more dangerous when applied and you are prolly more likely to do some one serious damage if done on the streets it involves lots of joint locks with the person on the ground then snapping arms etc. personally i choose ninjitsu over hapkido as i see it to be more efficient than hapkido but hapkido is a good art too

[ad_infinitum]

I will try to tell you some things from my experience,
but there is something that I must stress from the beginning.
At this day and age, lineage is everything in Ninjutsu, as there is too much garbage out there.
The good (and bad) publicity afforded by the movie industry (where the ninja is a superhuman or a comic figure) has made this art the ideal candidate for frauds and wannabes, where impostors trying to make a quick buck are in abundance.

Also since the early 80s when ninjutsu made its first foothold in the western world, many things have changed in the official (and unofficial policies) of the bujinkan (which in my knowledge is the biggest ninjutsu organization worldwide) http://www.bujinkan.com/
For the past decade any westerner could literally *buy* high grades in japan if he could spare the dollar. The original westerners (people like the Israeli Doron Navon and his pupils, or the Fleitas brothers in Spain and others are very worthy instructors but you will also find a lot of riff-raff) Where do you live? (maybe I can point you to some dojo)
So once again I must caution you on this! Scrutinize any instructor.

Aside from that,
Ninjutsu is a wonderfull art that is very applicable to self-defense situations.
It includes unarmed combat (ninpo taijutsu) as well as short/mid range and thrown weapons, as well as some obsolete elements.

The concepts of cross-training and mixing elements from different arts that have been popularized thanks to the recent mma wave have been inherent to ninjutsu for some time now. (in fact such arts where the only option some years ago if you wanted to be a somewhat complete fighter not only restricted to striking or wrestling or any other specific regimen)
Differences from the mma concepts are:

no sport aspect (there is randori/"free" fights but it is up to the opponents to show restrain with dangerous techniques and is always done under the supervision of the instructor. Also this is not strictly a one on one confrontation)

no forbidden techniques (see above. as self-defense is the main goal, all techniques are rehearsed - up to the point of being painfull (working) but not leading to injury or death)

effectiveness is not so quick in coming. A lot of dedication is required. (this is in part because the simplest technique can be the best in a one on one confrontation, but this is not always so, in one to many or unarmed vs armed situations. In such cases spatial awareness is paramount, and you must have a technique that is not only working against the immediate opponent, but will also leave you in a position to overcome ensuing or simultaneous attacks.) This lends some complexity in the art as a whole (although individual techniques can be very simple) that takes more time to become instinctive. The tactical and strategic element is also enhanced.

To give an analogy (that is also true for mma) the ninpo practitioner is walking the borders of many a separate traditional arts (karate, jujitsu, aikijutsu, kenjutsu, etc) like the mmartist will walk the borders of many a modern arts/sports (boxing, wrestring, kickboxing, judo etc).
In both cases the original techniques are not adopted as is but transformed and blended in a wider concept.

You will see a ninpo practitioner in unarmed combat strike, throw, do joint locks, use pressure points and strangulations, etc, but although an untrained eye might think it recognizes a mae geri (karate) or a ippon seoi nage (judo) or a shiho nage (aikido), practitioners of these arts will tell you that it is not so.
This is because individual techniques are blended in a greater whole and therefore "modified".

To give some simple examples:
Although in many striking arts the extremities (hands and feet) are viewed mainly as weapons in ninjutsu they are also targets (the hand or foot of the opponent can be hit, trapped, etc)
Restricting the mobility of the attacker while maintaining maximum mobility for yourself is very important (other attacks?) so although there are wrestling techniques the ninja will try to throw the opponent but not follow him to the ground (at least not all the way - he might kneel or mount him but trying to keep the option to disengage if needed).
Techniques seem to blend together. If you find yourself grabbed or at a grapping distance you will grab in a way that is painfull (eg if you grap the lapel as in judo you will turn the hand and extend the thumb so that it presses the trachea while you try the throw) or use a low kick to destroy the base of the opponent instead of trying to lift him.
This is a general characteristic of the art. Many techniques start as something and end up as something completely different (striking inside throwing or wrestling, pressure points inside throwing or wrestling, striking into joint locking, wrestling into joint locking etc)
Another trademark is constant usage of the feet to control the feet of the opponent(s) (stepping in a way that you obstruct his movement and/or frustrate him)

Many "dirty" tricks are also completely acceptable (genitals, eyes, hair - if present) and all vulnerable parts of the human anatomy.

Hope this gives you some idea.

If you want to take some visual cues try to find some Taikai video with Hatsumi (Soke of bujinkan ninjutsu)

[Half-Asleep]

yeah thats all true one thing i might also add to it for some examples are things like u move your opponent by moving yourself like you gain control of say an oponents arm and u use that to move them to say the ground where u apply pressure to their weak points say the back of the elbow. But in doing this you are controling their whole body not just with your arm holding the opponents arm but your footing is also used u might say spin around and the opponent will fall backward over your leg.

You also do things like your blocks strike pressure points on the wrist and ankle when u block strikes.

So some of the stuff needs to be very accurate but other stuff not so accurate. But to maintain the maximum efficiency accuracy is a big thing.

[greyfox13]

add striking,kicking, ju jitsu, weapons training, stealth, and ninjas and you got ninjitsu

[Akuma Kage]

Well, there is also the fact that Ninjitsu is more the study of EVERYTHING they did. That includes swordfighting on horseback, knowing your incenses, learning how to move with stealth, accupuncture, and so many more things. The list goes on, but that is mostly because for THEIR time, they had to know everything. Incense was important to know because specific social classes would have different types of incenses burning in their house, which would become inbedded in their clothing. This was one way that the lesser-purposed thieving Ninja could decide who they were going to rob. They would smell the incense and then know whose house to visit.

I'm not saying that there are still schools out there that teach these things; unless you want to pay Steven K. Hayes or visit Dr. Maasaki Hatsumi in Japan. Most of these techniques and studies are irrelevant or impractical, but can still be turned around and applied to more modern-day activities.

Most importantly, you have to think about what relevance either of these arts will have to you, career-wise or other. Also, Ninjitsu takes a lot of effort and time. It includes forming and shaping your body and in my opinion could quite possibly be like training to be an olympic-level athlete (depending on the school/teacher).

[Lizard]

If your primary reason for training is to learn how to assassinate people in medieval japan then go for the ninjitsu. That's a fact.

On a more serious note find out what the "ninjitsu" place actualy teaches and what training methods they use.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Ninjas were spies, saboteurs, and assasins for centuries, and very good at what they did. I don't understand the relevance of modern ninjutsu and how they can claim to be descendents as all ninja activities are illegal and punishable by law in modern society. Toyota could hire ninjas to find out what Honda is doing in the hybrid auto field, they could hire a ninja to try to poison a NK leader, but ninjutsu was not historically a self defense or honarable fighting art.
Hapkido is great if taught by a good instructor. Unfortunately the bad ones outnumber the good ones by a lot and it has turned into the equivalent of McD's TKD in the states.

[anotherme]

Well I did Ninjutsu for 6 years orginally before going on to JKD and MMA and I found the street fight element very good - especially with elements of grappling, destructions, contact sparring.

Its a good all round street fighting martial art - not a sport.

Good for many ranges - and we used to cross train with some best friends who had a hapkido / Jujitsu club in the next village.(we all went to same school but ended up doing different martial arts)

We found a lot of common ground in the ground fighting.

I would imagine Ninjutsu would be a good alround one to start before doing something like MMA/BJJ/JKD.

Though I must admit one doesnt hear much about Ninjutsu anymore in the martial arts press (well in the UK at least).

Anyone know the state of play with it?

[nethawk]

Newbie here. Greetings all. Been involved with it for a while after TWD and Shodokan. I personally love it, and that's all we're pretty much allowed to say. As a self defence (and...well...never mind) art, it rules. Like many said, scrutinize the instructors. This art perhaps above all others has a LOT of decoy teachers. If they can't back up their claims with actual trips to Japan and instruction under Hatsumi's wings or with one of his students (Nagato Sensei or Stephen hayes for example), ditch 'em.

[Thai Bri]

And if they can, ditch 'em quicker.

[Sean Dempsey]

I learn everything I need to about Ninjas at the official ninja website at http://www.realultimatepower.net

Among other things:

1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

[Lizard]

Don't get me started on that website! I've only just managed to stop thinking about ninjas, REAL ninjas, these guys are so cool they make me want to CRAP my pants! Here I go again...

[greyfox13]

oh dear God, not that crappy website full of lies, i hate it so much its a piece of crap! if you want a better ninja website, this is it www.entertheninja.com