Official 'Asshole at your School' Rant Thread.

[number18]

Yeah. I was starting to go off topic on another thread about how I just don't like some of the guys at my school, when I thought I might as well just start a new thread to rant on. So this thread is dedicated to ranting about that certain jerk at your school that just won't shut up, or the disrespectful guy you can't stand...or whatever.

So here goes.

Sean Dempsey started a thread about how he loves how he can just come into another world when he's on the mat at his school. And I was thinking about it...that I don't really ever fall into that state. Cause it seems I always have to deal with people's fronts at school. The disruptiveness brought on by the majority of the guys that train where I go is terrible, to me. They're not friendly. They make fun of the karate class that takes place before our mat time, within earshot of the poor karate students. They're always talking about BJJ-related things to make themselves sound good or like they know stuff. They're cocky and arrogant and disrespectful, in my eyes. Like, sometimes they're not even paying attention to our instructor during class, but instead they're off rolling on the side cause they already "know" the move he's showing. They're like teenagers that already think they know everything or something. And they're all grown men!

Worst of all is that they really don't hide the fact that they certainly don't want to train with me, a lowly, female white belt.

Some days I really feel a little hesitant going to class just cause of all this. But it's the only Gracie school around. All the rest are Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

[Lizard]

Men can be arrogant, aggressive and disrespectful. Especialy in small groups (hunting groups away from the rest of the tribe). It's the testosterone.

[Great Sage]

Wow... That would really suck number18. Perhaps you should have a talk with the head instructor? I mean, if you're paying for lessons you should be entitled to some common courtesy, or courtesy towards other martial artists. Seeing as you're a woman, I can imagine that it's even worse.

In my BJJ gym, there are no egos... At least that's our rule. We don't judge anyone based on their knowledge either. Our Drill Sargeant (second ranked instructor) is very serious about training and will not tolerate horseplay, ignorance or bad-mouthing...

As you may recall, I had an incident with the Tai Chi people. My head instructor just told me to "cool it," whereas the Drill Sargeant, upon hearing about it, came right up to me and challenged me to control myself.

[number18]

Yeah, really it's just one guy that talks a LOT and makes himself look important, so the other guys feel they have to follow that example. When they're joking around, sometimes I try to joke around just to be social, but they seem to ignore me. I don't even get a courtesy laugh! >.< Or they don't get my sense of humor at all. It's lame.

The class is REALLY casual, and I'm really the only new student, while all the rest are more advanced white belts and blue belts. So it IS understandable that they would not want to roll with me because they'd rather be advancing themselves. And it IS understandable that the instructor would rather pair me with someone more my size than one of these big guys. I'm 5'2, 128lb, I mean. A couple classes in a row I kept getting paired with the only other female student and we were getting kind of annoyed about it, but ....it's just understandable. It is more beneficial to ME to be training with someone my own size, ya know?

And to be truthful, I train for free because Mr. Heel Hook is a good friend of the instructor. The instructor really wants us to be there, too. So, what is there really to complain about? Well obviously, I'm complaining, but who else gets classes for free?? The instructor knows those guys have shitty attitudes but it seems like he prefers to stay out of their BSing and just stick to teaching GJJ - and if they don't learn anything cause they're goofing off, that's their own fault.

It's a sticky situation, you know? These guys have all been training together for a while. We come along and we're new. Mr. Heel Hook and I were kind of treated like strangers at first, but then he was a bit more accepted because he can tap most of the guys there. Meanwhile, like I said before, they don't really wanna train with me cause I'm a novice and I'm a tiny little chickadee. Only a few times has it happened that we broke up to drill a technique and someone was like "come over here with me." I'm always the last person standing, waiting to find someone to spar with. And if I go up to someone and say "let's try this," I get this reluctance, man! Once, in fact, I was trying this move with someone I did that to, and I was having trouble getting one part, so instead of showing ME how to do it, my partner called over his buddy and did the technique with him to show me. Then they just ended up rolling, once again leaving me by myself. It was so queer.

I don't know. I never really considered talking to the instructor about being ditched all the time. We talked about the guys' attitudes before (with the nonstop yapping,etc), and he expressed that he kinda felt the same way. How lame it is. I mean, every now and again he has to go "hey guys, come on now, pay attention," cause they're still rolling when he has already asked the class for his attention. But he's not gonna waste more time getting these guys to pay attention to him than teaching the people who DO wanna learn. Like I said before, if they don't get it cause they're goofing off, that's their fault. And to me that's totally understandable. But as far as talking to him about getting ditched, I dunno. I think he must not know what to do with me or something. He tried pairing me with the other female in the class, like I said, but I could tell she didn't wanna train with a beginner the WHOLE class, and I feel that.

Stickiness, ya know? :P

[Sean Dempsey]

(paraphrased) "The purpose of your training should be to raise the game of those around you" -Helio Gracie

This class sounds like it is full of jokers.

There is alot that they can do to train with someone who is new and still improve everyone's game. Ever asked them to only use their legs and go for triangles? They are probaly such ego idiots that they can't bear to do anything but go for submissions.

You could have them maintain guard, or have to stay on their back, or have you start out crossbody. There is any number of things the more advanced students could do with you were everyone benefits. I am guessing these clowns aren't disciplined enough to realize that.

I am sorry your school isn't what you'd like, I doubt I'd enjoy myself there either. Whenever new people come to our school, everyone is super nice, and we all roll with them. Just last night I rolled with a guy who was brand new. We threw a Gi on him and went at it. During the whole roll, he was making glaring huge mistakes, but the whole time I was telling him what to do and what he was doing wrong.

He learned things, and so did I. And you know what? Even against a brand new guy, both of us raised our game for eachother.

I remember when I was brand new, and I could tell people were reluctant to roll with me because it was pretty much just totally elementary. But they did it anyways, and I learned and learned. My first 3 months of Jiu Jitsu was during a summer where there was no class, so it was just rolling. I spent 3 months training with no instruction, no coaching, no moves, no knowledge, nothing. Eventually, they saw I was so humble and teachable, they would tap me, and then show me what they did. So slowly I learned the good ol' fashioned "hard way". And then finally classes started.

So now, whenever someone is new, I always say to myself "What if no one had ever rolled with me because I was so new, or never stopped the roll to show me what a 'triangle' was", and I always remind myself of that Helio quote. My goal isn't to make myself better. My goal is to see how I can make everyone in that class better.

I'd just hang in there and learn learn learn, get real technical, train like mad, and just remember the core fundamentals of JJ.

Someday, another new student will walk in the door, and that'll be your turn to break the cycle and see what it's like to use your JJ skills to raise the game of that new person.

[number18]

Originally posted by Sean Dempsey
This class sounds like it is full of jokers.

They are probaly such ego idiots that they can't bear to do anything but go for submissions.

That about pinpoints it. They like trying out the latest move somebody learned over at Boston Brazilian or something, which is how they end up rolling on the side while the instructor is showing a new technique. And to me it seems they like to wear the rash guard just to show off, aside from the actual use of the garment. Oh, and here's another fun story. I was rolling with one of these wonderful gentlemen, who in particular likes to use nasty methods (I wanna say more akin to Vale Tudo stuff) to gain the upperhand/submit. We were just sparring like everyone does at the end of class, and instead of taking it easy on the new chick, he's like...not going ALL out to submit me, but he's being overly rough with me, trying to submit. Why, I ask? Why are you trying to be all tough with the novice? Mr. Heel Hook was a quite annoyed by it.

I must point out that not ALL the guys there are all macho men like that. But none of them are very friendly. :/ Mr. Heel Hook really doesn't like it that much either, but it's free training, like I said. Recently a new BJJ school opened up near where we live, but the place charges 60 bucks a month for two classes a week! Not even Gracie Academy charges that much. Ptooey! But, we'll be checking the place out nontheless. Or he will at least.

[Sean Dempsey]

I know what it's like to have someone go at you like their whole image depends on it.

Alot of the times, I'll just remind them "this isn't a competition man, you're not getting any trohpy's when we're done."

But if they insist, I just focus on staying tight on them and defending as long as I can.

If you only learn 1% of an escape or defense from someone using a move on you, after them getting you 100 times, you'll have 100% of the escape and finally they won't get you with that particular move. That's how I look at it.

It sucks, but you can choose to look at it like a gift. At least they are giving you some good experience for competitions or real fights.

Believe it or not, having skilled, rough training partners eat you up for a few months will make you much, much better in the end. Guys who are pretty good at getting submissions, they used to get me in the first 30-60 seconds. Now, the same guys take 10 minutes or more to tap me. And it's just gonna keep getting longer until, uh oh, they're the ones slapping the mat.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Well, I guess I should add my say in this post. What Mizz 18 is saying all too annoyingly true. Most of the people there are very egotistical and disrespectful of the place we train in. I won't lie and say I get a small laugh out of some of the stuff the karate class does, but saying out loud is just plan disrespectful. They should be appreciative of where we train -- plain and simple.

I have never before trained with a group of people like the school I am at. Most of the people there are arrogant and form little cliques among themselves when sparring or drills begin. When I first arrived there I felt like a black sheep, no one wanted to roll with me because I guess I don't look tuff. Standing at 5 foot 9 and 150 I am not the most impressive of people. This is the typical treatment most people get there when they are new.

In retrospect it was amusing, the first time I rolled. Why? because I ended up with the biggest (girth wise) and loudest mouth there. This guy (which will be nameless, unless #18 wants to rant about him) is your typical big mouthed, chauvinistic, I'm bigger than you so there, kind of person. We faced each other on our knees and he began to wave me onto him with a smirk and wry smile. I remember my thoughts very clearly: "this guy must think I am a chump..."

I won't get into detail, but the match took about 10 minutes before he beat me. How did he beat me? By mounting me and laying on my head with his 270 pound body weight. I realized after the one minute mark he wasn't going to move anywhere. So, I tapped to conserve the energy he was sapping from me. There was still plenty of people to roll with, so why waste my time trying to get a 270 pound man off my head.

After several classes I quickly established I was the 4th best person in the class out of 20+ people. This is when the doors to coolville were opened to me. The higher ups started to speak more to me and wanting to roll with me to test me and themselves. Thing is though, I never accepted their invitation to join the cool crew. I myself have always had a problem with arrogance and inherently don't like rude people. Everyone there is there to learn. A school should be like a family, all looking out for each other and trying to better each other in order to better themselves.

After a while, Rich (our instructor and my good friend) put me in charge of training new people. And frankly, it probably saved us a few students. I like teaching, it is refreshing and sometimes can show you little things that you are missing in your own technique. Still, it's a shame that is like this.

Last time when Rener Gracie was here, he quickly noticed who was serious and who wasn't. It's funny that their attitudes didn't change a lot even when a Gracie was here. I mean for god sakes, we had a Gracie at our school. Wouldn't you lot be a bit better and more serious.

When Rener and I were at my house playing mindtrap (which he kicked my ass in. I hate that flocken game) we were joking about some of the people there and how noticeably arrogant they were. We had one guy there who didn't want to wear his gi in class. This of course during a gi seminar.

When that class was going on, the kid kept asking questions (that had nothing to do with what Rener was talking about 1/2 the time) and interrupting him during his sentences. After that, every time he asked a question Rener would just reply with "Yeah, bro, that's right." No matter what he was asking. After that day's class, we went to Chili's (Damn I love their boneless buffalo wings) for some dinner and to relax. I asked him why he kept yessing the kid and he laughed a bit saying he wanted to have the kid learn incorrectly. Maybe next time he will actually listen closely when he realizes that everything he is doing is wrong.

The place we train for me and 18 is free, and that is something I truly appreciate, but sometimes it is just hard to go and deal with everyone there. They aren't pricks... But I don't care for large egos. When it comes to Jiu Jitsu though, I myself have been accused of being arrogant. I firmly believe that Gracie Jiu Jitsu is the best, but that is just me being stubborn. But amongst your fellow martial artist of any creed, it' s just not right.

[IPON]

Mizz18/HH: I really feel the istructor should take control of his class and students. I mean whether you are paying or not common courtesy and respect should be maintainined. I mean "if they learn they learn if not oh well" is not good either. AI know instructor may feel that way about 1 or 2 students but the majority...whoa.

$60per month isn't that much for the aggrevation I would switch (HH FYI Renzo chanrged almost $1800per year the last time I checked few years ago and that was if you paid all up front - that was the other reason I didn't start)

[BB Wolf]

Sorry to hear about your experience.
Granted, when you have a bunch of guys who have trained together for a while, there is a certain "esprit de corps" that is present. However, this sounds like it goes beyond that. Unfortunantly, there are some people who go into MA's because they have an axe to grind or something to prove. In addition to the already existant chip on their shoulder, they learn a few tricks,
have some success, and think of themselves as badasses. They think of themselves as part of an elite group and feel the need to take it out on the newbies or those they know they can take. They treat those people like they were in the Marines (or at least what they think the Marines are like). Their egos have control of them. They are probably insecure, when it comes down to it. That may be why they joined the class in the first place. Granted, I've come across a few people who were a bit arrogant but could kick ass and they knew it. Even most of those guys wern't truelly assholes. The biggest badassses I've known, true badasses: Spec Ops guys, MA/Combatives instructors who could truely wipe the floor with you, etc. are generally nice, gregarious, often softspoken guys. They don't do the whole macho, chest pounding thing because they don't have anything to prove. They know they can take you. They've often dealt with the reality of what many of us train for in a way very few of us can imagine, and see no romance in it. Its a "been there, done that" kinda thing. My wife used to date the drummer of a local punk band and was part of "the scene". It could be pretty political and fights would break out. She knew this one fellow who, as far as I know had no formal training, and was basically a nice guy, but could kick some serious ass. She once took his pulse rate after a fight. It was about 85 bpm. That is a guy you do not want to mess with. Talk to your instructor. Part of this is his fault for not squashing this attitude in his students from the get go. If he basically agrees with them. Train somewhere else. You should enjoy your dojo.

[greyfox13]

mabye those bastards would shut their mouths if i stomped on their throats

[Mr. Miyagi]

You guys should seriously consider switching schools. GJJ and BJJ (to me the same thing) can be great when you have a firm teacher and good students in the class. Being affiliated with a Gracie doesn't guarantee a good school, which is not to say that it can't be great either.

[M@T]

A few people have been kicked out of my kickboxing gym over the years, the last one was just after christmas. He had only been going for about 3 months and didn't even have a belt. At my club we do Semi contact up until Green (4th) belt then you can start battering people. This guy however went straight into the beginners class and went at everyone like a madman. He was warned, warned again and again etc. In the end my instructor told him to **** off.

And another bloke went up to my instructors face and accused him of ripping the students of with his prices. He was ****ed off aswell despite his desperate apologies after. It wouldn't have been so bad but our prices are some of the lowest around. £8.75 per week and you can train 3 hours Mon-Thursday and 2 hours saturday if you like.

[kengar]

Sorry to her this type of story, it must suck. If you can not afford to go to another school then lift your chin, make a stand and stick to it. You can still learn and find some enjoyment.
Why doesn't this instructor take control of his (someone's) class?

Some times us guys are just jackasses and you have to realize your above those shitty attitudes. Be there for you, noone else.





Ken

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by kengar
Be there for you, noone else.

Pretty much why I still go.