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Another Rickson interview. A very long one might I add.

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  • Another Rickson interview. A very long one might I add.

    Thought you guys might like more insight on this Gracie.


    Interviewed by Kondo Takao

    Translated by Yoko Kondo

    @

    Rockson Gracie, who died in a motorcycle accident last February, is smiling in a frame. Here is a living room where I have visited many times so far. Rickson, who invited me in, asked me to sit down, and he himself took a seat on a sofa quietly. It is a natural style he always has. It has been four months since he lost his beloved son. He has kept silent during that time. I had many questions to ask, but I wondered what I should begin with. Conscious of my predicament, he spoke first. "Don't worry about me. Let's talk as we usually do," he said with a smile, and started to speak in a firm tone. "Rockson is my loving son. Needless to say, his death was an extraordinarily big shock. Since then, I have been trying to spend a lot of time with my family. I have done it for four months. What I should do now is to protect my family, because I could endure that incident more easily than other family members did, my wife, and daughters, and my other son. I am a warrior. I understand that there is victory and defeat, and life and death in fights, and in life. And I can accept that Rockson's short life is finished and he has ascended to heaven. But for my family members, it was an intolerable sorrow. Still now, I spend time with them, and I want to do anything I can do for them. I want to pray for the repose of Rockson's soul with them. I want to see off his start for the new life with hope. I don't want to consider Rockson's death just an unhappy incident, rather we want to take it as a motivation to make our life better. We are in the middle of that process. I naturally grieved over my son's death. I can't express in words what it was like. But this incident is nothing rare. As long as life is going on, various kinds of things will happen to us. We have to take and accept them. It is not allowed to us to just stay in a sorrow without doing anything. Many of our friends poured their love on me and my family. They also prayed for the peace of Rockson's soul. I am grateful for what they did for us. I appreciate many Japanese fans who cared about me too. And I'm glad that I myself could accept this reality. The sorrow was beyond words. But what is most important is to look at the positive side, not just to grieve over the incident."

    Q: How are all your family members? Are they getting better now?

    Rickson: Thank you. They are getting better little by little. Thank you very much for having come to the memorial ceremony too. Kron (the youngest son) is concentrating on training jiu-jitsu pretty much now. He participated in the jiu-jitsu tournament held in Huntington Beach at the end of April. Many other members of the academy entered too, so I went to see it. The tournament was not so big or a high level, but everybody was enjoying jiu-jitsu. Kron will be strong more and more from now on.

    Q: Have you already started teaching at the dojo?

    Rickson: I started teaching from about the end of April. I am beginning to teach private lessons too.

    Q: I feel better to see you in a good condition.

    Rickson: I will repeat it again, but I have accepted my son's death. Rockson ascended to heaven. There is no need to grieve over it. I will go to heaven some day too. Oh, yes, it was just after the memorial ceremony was finished. I was feeling something bothering me. Regarding Rockson's death, I have accepted it. But there were many things which bothered me. I felt wretched and I didn't want to stay cooped up in a room, so I spent much time on the beach. But something kept bothering me. What healed such a state of my mind was a view seen from the hill on which my house is. Seeing a magnificent spectacle before me, I felt as if I was encouraged. I was encouraged by nature. I thought then that I wanted to keep looking at this view, and I wanted to have a place to watch it. So I decided to make a terrace (a lookout) on the tree in the site of this house.

    Q: Is it a thickly-wooded backyard in that a high place?

    Rickson: Yes it is. I had devoted myself to make the terrace for three weeks since then. I did it by myself without anyone's help. It was a work on the tree. While looking at the view, I kept working so hard that I couldn't feel time passing. I was getting free from something bothering me. Probably I wanted to concentrate on something. A colorful bird was flying around me while I worked. It was a blue jay. It was watching me suspiciously. This was in the site of my house, but here was a place eight meters above the ground. Yes, it was their territory. That blue jay must have been living here for many years before we moved in this house. In the beginning, the blue jay was watching me intently. It must have been on its guard, since I came into his territory all of sudden. But as time went on, it came to close to me. I tried to roll a peanut over the wooden floor of the terrace which was beginning to get into shape. Then, the blue jay came and started eating it. The distance between the blue jay and me got closer. I put a peanut on my hand next. The blue jay stepped on my hand and ate it. Now it steps on my hand without a peanut.

    I went out to the garden with Rickson, and climbed a bush to the terrace he made. The sound of my steps on the bush barefoot made me comfortable. Looking up at the back of branches, a two-and-half wide board placed on a thick trunk came into my view. He climbed up the tree trunk with a light step by the help of a rope ladder. As soon as he came up to the terrace and sat cross-legged, the blue bird showed up. The front side of the body is blue, and the belly side is white. On the head is a crown feather, and in the wings can be recognized a black belt and white spots. It is a bright-colored bird with a 15-centimeter long. tail. Hold on! Carefully watching it, I can see something darkish in both the blue wings and the white belly. That appearance showed off its nobility and determination to survive through the wild life.

    "Blue jays are very noble and wise birds. They are living with their family and exclude others. Do you know blue jays are monogamous? Once they get married, they will protect their family until the end. There is no second marriage, even if either one dies."

    That bird, which is really wild, was taking to Rickson.

    "We are friends with each other. They will have a baby bird soon. Their sons and me will become closer as time goes by, so they will come into my house some day."

    The blue jay flew away from Rickson's hand, who was turning his eyes far away.

    "You can see clearly the far-off mountain in a sunny day. I often come to this place and spend time quietly. I needed a place where I can have mind in peace alone. "

    One photograph was being hung on the tree trunk placed the terrace, covered with a thin vinyl over not to get wet by the rain. It was a picture of Rockson.

    While Rickson had kept silent, various reports on his future were released by Japanese sport magazines, such as he might retire out of sorrow, or he will be back to the ring of Japan again for sure--it is already determined that Rickson will fight Choshu Riki from New Japan Pro-wrestling in the ring of Tokyo Dome on January 4th next year, etc. Needless to say, these are all merely speculations, not what Rickson himself said. I wonder what the truth is. We went back to the room, and I asked him about it.

    " I've never thought about retirement even once. Fighting is always presented in front of me. In fact, I got several offers. It is also true that I was asked to fight with Mr. Choshu early next year."

    Q: It was surprising to me that the name of Mr. Choshu was picked as your opponent.

    Rickson: It must be. I understand what you want to say. My fighting and professional wrestling are in a different category from each other. I understand it well and I have no intention to do professional wrestling. In conclusion, I turned down that offer. The plan itself has already come to nothing. I also got offers to fight with Mr. Ogawa and Mr. Sakuraba in addition to Mr. Choshu. But the only thing I decided was not to fight during this year. I haven't signed a contract with anyone. It seems that there are various kinds of rumors or reports, but the fact is that I have no plan at the present time. It's not the right time for me to fight now. It is more important for me to support my family and concentrate on myself and my own training than to face the next fight.

    Q: it means that you are not losing your fighting spirit........

    Rickson: Exactly. I am still a warrior above all. So when the time comes, my interest in fighting will be roused without fail. I need at least three months, if possible four or five months to prepare for the next fight. As for the promoter's side, they may need eight months. I feel that the energy and mood surrounding me are far from a suitable condition to fight. When they come to 100% level, it will be the time I make a decision on the next fight. But it is wrong to think in a such a way that my son's death put out my fighting spirit. Rather, his start on his journey motivates me to try harder.

    Q: I heard that you will appear on a movie. There was a report that a contract with your next fight is being left behind because of that.

    Rickson: In fact, a movie project is in progress. It is a little delayed, but it will crank in this autumn and be completed within this year. However, for me appearing on a movie is not situated on the same level with fighting. So it is impossible that the fighting schedule is delayed with my appearing on a movie.

    Q: What king of movie is it?

    Rickson: It is an action movie. And another movie project for me is in progress too.

    Q: By the way, have you watched the video of the fight between Vanderlei Silva and Sakuraba Kazushi in Pride 13 (in Saitama Super Arena on March 25th)?

    Rickson: No, I haven't yet. I just heard that Sakuraba lost, and what it was like roughly.

    Q: Nino Schembri, the jiu-jitsu fighter who spent the summer at your house last year, entered Pride 14 (in Yokohama Arena on May 27th). Did you watch it?

    Rickson: No, I didn't even know that Nino did the fight there. I just heard that he was likely to enter Pride 14. I don't mean I was not interested in fights, but I haven't seen anything at all lately.

    I brought the video tape with me today. When I asked him, "why don't we watch it together now?" Rickson said, "OK" and sat up to set the tape into a deck. As soon as it starts, exchanging hard blows is exposed to us. Then Sakuraba is driven into a corner.... He gets several knee-kicks from Silva with the head down on the ground, and finally it comes to the end by a referee stop. Sakuraba's bloody face is brought into a close-up. It was only for 2 minutes or so, but Rickson was staring at the screen. I saw the eyes of a fighter back to him. He turned off the video, and turned to me, and said, "it is almost the same story as I heard." Then he started analyzing the fight between Sakuraba and Silva.

  • #2
    Other half:

    Rickson turned off the picture of Sakuraba's bloody face brought into a close-up on the screen with a remote control and turned to me, and said nodding slightly, "it is almost the same story as I heard". He got the eyes of a fighter back. I stared at his eyes. I wanted to read something from the movement of his eyes watching for the first time the video of the fight between Sakuraba and Silva. I saw nothing. But these were the eyes of a fighter without a doubt. Time passed quietly. The sound of a camera's shutter clicking reverberated emotionlessly in the room. I broke the silence by asking, "what is your impression about the fight where Sakuraba was defeated?"

    Rickson: I have no special impression about it. I am not surprised at the result at all. Sakuraba lost because he made a mistake. That's all

    Q: Mistake? Does it mean he exchanged blows in standing?

    Rickson: That's right. He made a mistake about the strategy. He must not lose his temper. He was so excited that he tried to exchange punches. He couldn't defend himself for that reason. He used to keep on fighting patiently all the time and wait for an opponent to make a mistake. But this time he couldn't wait. That's why a mistake was brought about.

    Q: The rule of Pride was changed partly from that day when this fight was performed (March 25). It allows fighters to give kicks and knee-kicks to an opponent on his face with his head down on the ground. Did you know about the revision of the rule?

    Rickson: I knew it when I heard about the result of the fight between Sakuraba and Silva. I don't know if Sakuraba couldn't cope with the rule. But it's not a big change. Originally it is a no-rule fight, so being open is a natural matter. It is natural from the Vale Tudo point of view.

    Q: I wonder if a possibility of the fight between you and Sakuraba has gone.

    Rickson: First of all, I don't consider him a special fighter. It could have been possible enough that Sakuraba would be defeated by Silva. The reason why I think so is that he has never shown me any excellent victory or performance so far. Surely he defeated my brothers. But in the case of Royler, he was not defeated, but he was just treated as a loser due to an unfair referee-stoppage. Royce's loss resulted from an injury to his leg which made him not to be able to continue to fight any more. Some people are inclined to consider the fight between Royce and Sakuraba a great fight, but I don't think so. During fights, there comes a moment without fail when an opponent makes a mistake. That moment can not be missed. If they both miss the chance, it will be a long fight, and as a result one or the other will sooner or later not be able to fight any longer. It is by no means a fight to be praised. A great fighter is required to never miss a chance. I don't have a high evaluation of Sakuraba. But I am a professional fighter. Whoever it is, I am going to fight with anyone as long as a promoter presents a condition good enough to make me satisfied. It is not limited to Sakuraba, but to anybody.

    Immediately after Sakuraba defeated Royce last May, a lot of Japanese fans expressed their eagerness to see a fight between Rickson and Sakuraba. Rickson knows about it well. Not only Royler and Royce, but also Renzo and Ryan, who are not Rickson's brothers, but who have the same Gracie name, also succumbed to Sakuraba. It can't be that Rickson didn't care about him. After all, Sakuraba is the man called "Gracie Hunter" . I expected to hear more emotional words from Rickson, but it was not like that. But what concerned me more than that was the fact that he hasn't watched any fights or even video tapes at all of not only Sakuraba but also professional kakutogi until today. No active fighter, or a person whose job is fighting can fail to pay attention to the movement of kakutogi. I wonder if Rickson has no interest in fights of others. No, it can't be true. While watching the fight between Sakuraba and Silva, he got the eyes of a fighter back. He said that he has spent time for his family since the death of his beloved son, Rockson. He didn't even know that Nino Schembri, whom Rickson invited to his house and trained together with last summer, entered Pride 14 (in Yokohama Arena on May 27). He must have spent the days here when was really isolated from his own fight plan. We watched the video tape of the fight together in which that Nino fought with another Brazilian fighter named Johil Oliveira. Nino enters the ring in a Elvis Presley costume. When it came out on the screen, Rickson smiled. "He likes Elvis. Interesting guy!" The fight starts. He looked calmer than when he watched the fight between Sakuraba and Silva. Time was 7 minutes and 17 seconds. Nino won by a perfect arm-lock. It was his debut match as a professional, but he is well-known in the jiu-jitsu world. It seems that he is called "Rickson II" by some people, because he actively aims at finalization, not a win by decision.

    When I talked about it to Rickson, he said in a quiet tone. " He is a technician, and has a good sense too. He might surpass me in terms of elements. There is possibility for that. But it can be said not only about Nino but also other fighters too."

    Q: What are the elements for a great fighter?

    Rickson: Technique is necessary. But only technique is not enough. Spirit is necessary. It is also important to make the technique fostered by jiu-jitsu unite with Vale Tudo well. And it is not all. There are many things more we still have to learn. One can not learn everything in one-time life. But fortunately I could possess a lot of things necessary to fights so far in my life. Vision of fighting, technique of Vale Tudo, and ability to control both mental and physical aspects. It is very difficult to learn them in one-time life. I like Nino, and I want to see more of his victories. He is 26 years old now. But I don't think he can learn everything what I possessed in the rest of his life. I got a special gift from God. It was not my brothers or anyone else in the Gracie family, but me who got a gift. And it is not something I got because I wanted, but it was given to me by God. That's why I could learn so many things in one-time life. As a result, I can read the intention of my opponent, and can unite well my confidence with my killer instinct in a fight. This is not what you can possess in 20-years or so of your life. I don't think I am best. Many fighters have a possibility to be far ahead of me. But it is very difficult. Of course I am not God, but I appreciate God for giving me a gift.

    His tone was calm. I felt I understood what his thoughts and talk were turning to. In 20-year or so of your life.........Rockson passed away at 19 years old. Rickson was going to pour all his experience into his beloved son. But it turned out to be a dream beyond reach. The Gracie family has the history that they have always led the Brazilian kakutogi. And they continued to bring up idol fighters. Starting with Helio, and Carlson, then Rolls, and in the 80's Rickson was the idol of the Brazilian jiu-jitsu world. But no charismatic fighter has come out since Rickson, despite the fact that jiu-jitsu fighters are increasing in number. I asked Rickson why?

    Rickson: I am sure that a man who can succeed me will emerge from the Gracie family. But I think it might be one or two generations later. It is clear why the situation turned out to be like this. It is because the family started to live separately. I'm in California, Relson in Hawaii, Renzo in New York. Not all the family members who live in Brazil stay in Rio de Janeiro. But we were not like that until my generation. All the family members trained together in a good environment where many strong fighters with various specialties could perfect their technique with each other. Among them, the one who had a great power entered a fight as a representative of the family. But now, things are different. I think I want to do it again together. It is not impossible. But we have a special feeling for the reason that we are the family. It is very difficult to unite into one as long as any of us have a strong feeling that we want to be placed above the others in the family. But I want to believe it. I hope the day will come when we all will be able to train together. No, it will come for sure.

    The sun stays up a long time in Southern California. The afternoon sunshine poured into the room, but a clock was telling me that it was almost 7 p.m. When I turned off the switch of the tape recorder, his second son, Kron came in. The 16-year old boy called out to me sheepishly "Hello!". His gestures somehow looked like Rockson of a few years ago.

    "Kron has been training jiu-jitsu very hard lately. I hope it will happen that he can train with the sons of my brothers together" said Rickson while hugging Kron closer to him. I put away everything and went out of the front door. Rickson went out to the garden with bare feet and sat down on the fence. Then he whistled briefly several times. The blue jay that lived in the back yard flew down and landed on the back of Rickson's left hand.

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    • #3
      Hmmm interesting.....

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