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**Szczepankiewicz** · 10-09-2003, 01:56 PM

Alllllrighty then.

Thanks for clearing that up.

**Thai Bri** · 10-09-2003, 02:03 PM

Hitchie! great post. Heres an idea to make the next one even better!

Have a point.

**Sean Dempsey** · 10-09-2003, 02:10 PM

Bjj is not good for the street, its only a sport.

**platinum_angel** · 10-09-2003, 02:28 PM

say hello to the welcome wagon

**HichieBJJ** · 10-09-2003, 02:47 PM

haha sorry guys i dont know what i hit that sent the post i wasnt done!

I have been viewing a lot of posts for awhile and I felt it was time for me to post one. Now Before I start writing, i want to say a few things. I am not intending to start offend anyones art, if a debate occurs which it most likely will thats cool. But I want to repeat I am not trying t offend anyones art. But man I am so fed up of reading the same BJJ topic over and over and over again. Its all the same. Bjj is not good for the street, its only a sport. I have been reading the same posts not only on this forum, but others as well.
Brazilian Jiu jitsu-Gracie Jiu Jitsu, whatever you want to call it. Everyone knows the story Maeda, the Gracies etc. Although Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is known for having an outstanding ground art, there are three phases. 1) Sport Jiu Jitsu grappling, no strikes, sport. 2) Vale tudo, MMA, NHB, whatever you want to refer to it as. Which although a sport now, was no rules fights.3) Self defense techniques ranging from grabs to strikes, to weapons. Most people who start BJJ want to learn the first two, and usually come from other self defense arts. With in mind, the effectiveness of the ground grappling. Which royce showed to the world, that if you don't know grappling and you are taken out of your element, your in trouble. Royce has a book out with all Jiu Jitsu self defense techniques. But I will agree that most people want BJJ for the ground.
Multiple attackers. Never once have I ever heard Royce, Rorion, Renzo, Ralph, Rickson or one of the Machados( or any other Gracie) make claim that by learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, you will be able to defeat more than one attacker. Yet, there is constant posts about how BJJ is no good for that. Ground grappling is not for multiple attackers. I dont think anyoen who does Bjj can really argue that. But for those who do not study it. We are shown ways to use positions (like Knee-on-belly) to have the opponent down, but watch our surroundings. Ways to move when standing to watch for lets say our opponents friends. So we do have concepts and techniques and positions to practice, but in all honesty Bjj/Gjj is a one on one art. Now i am sure there have been situations where a martial artist has defended against multiple attackers, but in reality it was just a matter of good luck or good circumstance, logically i dont care what you know to defend against 3 guys who are in fact animals the way they fight, are not going to be easily defeated. I am sure this has happened, but its not likely. Its not realistic to think that you can walk into a bar and get into a fight and wipe the floor with everyone attacking you at once. There were many martial artists who found out that their techniques didnt work while in the Ufc. I am not talking about Royce. Take Kevin Rosier and Zane frasier. Zane lost the fight. But he studied American Kenpo which teaches you to defend against multiple opponents. He had a hard time dealing with an average kickboxer. The training has to be there, it takes lumps and bruises and hard times. you dont practice striking in a mirror and go out think you can fight. Now although people feel kata is useless, i have done it and there are things that you can get that are usefull, but kata wont save your ass, no matter what you have been told. FRED ETTISH for those of you who know i dont feel there is any explaining.

Dangerous techniques. The arguement is that BJJ is not effective cause the lack of eye gouging, hair pulling, biting, groin shots etc. If anyon saw UFC 3 Royce used Kimos hair when they were fighting. Do what you have to in a fight, but dont base BJJ on the sport aspect of it. Make no mistake, BJJ or should I say Jiu Jitsu in general is referred to as the soft art, but it can be extremely brutal. If you are on the ground and have a guy pinned down, you can have so much control over his body and his limbs that it can leave his eyes or his ears to rip right in front of you. BJJ has counters to alot of foul techniques, my teacher showed me a video of his fight, he fought a style of karate and the guy was going for his eyes, and bam, my teacher broke his shoulder. It was a weird thing to see. So whats the excuse now? The guy went for the eyes, and he couldnt get to him and he wound up losing. All I am saying is you cant base your whole art on just foul tactics. Its great to know them I am not arguing with anyone on that, but its not neccessary to study a martail art for years and years to just learn that, that is instinctive to do, everyone does them. of course tere are different ways to position the hands fingers etc, A guy in my class did Kempo and he got into a fight and went to strike the other guy with a four finger eye gouge and they were brawling and it was so frantic that he hit his head and broke two of his fingers. A Buddy of mine does Shootfighting and one of this students got into a fight took the guy down and arm barred him, the guy bit leg, so the shootighting student used that pain and ripped his arm and destroyed his elbow. Shit man, i dont care what you know, you think if you fight someone like Mike Tyson a groin kick is going to stop him, hes a runaway freight train when he fights, his adrenaline its going to take a lot more than that to stop him. Besides for those that knock Boxing, thai boxing, BJJ etc and sya its a sport, does anyone really think that what they now is going to defeat a guy like tyson? even though boxing is a sport? So keep in mind, that although it is effetcive to know those things dont make assumptions that knowing how to do that is the end all of any fight.
Hard Pavement. That would hurt like hell. Being I train BJJ, I dont particulary agree that EVERY fight goes to the ground. I dont. But it happens, no matter what you train to stop that wether by accident or design the fight can end up on the ground. usually it will if it lasts long.In Bjj, we have standing techniques, we also train to aviod the takedown but it still happens and if it happens to BJJ guys that train to aviod it, it is going to happen to those that dont. If you fight a wrestler who knows his shit, your going to get slammed or taken down. I come from a kenpo background and we learned techniques to aviod it, but it doesnt always happen. If in fact we decide to bring the fight to the ground, the opponent is the one who cushion our fall not our bodies and if it is reverse if we get taken down and have the enegry and the wind to fight we are going to use or ground skills, to get up, because we know how.
GJJ/BJJ like i said before the heart is ground grappling, but i train with the higher ranks and i try to punch them and its hard when you get tied up. BJJ offers standing grappling too. I see two guys in Long Island, Ny in abar fight and they were swinging and they grabbed each other. A lot of fights wind up in the clinch or some sort of clinch for unskilled fighters. But i will be the first to admit, you have to know how to stand up and punch and kick. Be a well rounded fighter, dont knock JJ just because we view trainign against multiple attackers and the use of weapons differently. WHo the hell would want to even get into a fight when your opponent has a weapon. Get the hell out of there, we live in adangerous worl with dangerous people. There are times you DONT go the ground, ther might be times you can or you had to. Be open minded. This isnt 10 years ago, where its style vs. Style anymore. all these people who knock BJJ should have got into it back then and fought and then make accurate statements. Todays JJ fighter wants to knowhow to do it all. kick, punch, wrestle, submission. Like the old saying goes, "there is no best art" but there are arts that are effective and arts that arent. Weed out the shit and learn the right stuff. My opinion may not be right, but its my opinion. Learn stand up(Muay Thai, boxing), theres your basics that are very important, ground .(Bjj, etc)and if your BJJ school doesnt teach you self defense, then learn a self defense art like Krav Maga or American Combat) or whatever you feel is effective, arts that are no nonsense. Now you have it all, and all you can do is hope to prepare for things that can happen in the street

I know this is a long post and most of you will notlike it and will find things constant to pick on or make debate which i either way is cool, i am secure with my art and what it has done for me. I have a friend who did JKD/Wing Chun for a little over 9 years and he sparred his buddy who did JJ for seven months and the jj guy killed him and he became open to it. Now he swears by it. Not that Wing CHun is not effective, BUT THE POINT IS BJJ is and if you dont know about it, dont knock it. Shit I wouldnt wanna get hit by a real hardcore martial artist who is strong an conditioned and spars all the time. On the same time never underestimate sport arts like wrestling and boxing, those guys can hurt you real bad, dont think because you practice an art with foul tactics that you can walk around defeat anyone. It seems to me that in theory a lot of traditional arts make sense, but in reality they fail. Where with BJJ, if u think about it, in theory it doesnt right, but in actuality it really does work. Just have to know how to use it. Okay I blabbed enough sorry this is long guys and it is rather confusing and all over the place but this is all i hear about Bjj, so i figured i would voice my opinion. to all those that still want to knock Bjj, then well go to a bJj and challenge and make it according to how u feel a real fight should be and see how many takers you get. Even if it goes out on the pavement

**Szczepankiewicz** · 10-09-2003, 02:53 PM

Goodness gracious great googlie mooglie!!!

You don't seriously expect me to wade through all that do you?

You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:You want people to read your stuff, add a little whitespace and structure. Make it easy to read. Otherwise it looks like this:

**Mr. Heel Hook** · 10-09-2003, 02:55 PM

Hmmm....

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**gregimotis** · 10-09-2003, 03:24 PM

So, but what are your feelings on pirates?

**Sean Dempsey** · 10-09-2003, 03:29 PM

What is it with people and BJJ? Why does everyone feel the need to be a mormon missionary preaching the gospel of how "BJJ isn't good at XXXX and XXXX and really XXXX is much better!!" HAVE YOU HEARD?!?!?! HERE IS A BULLETED LIST OF WHY BJJ ISN'T GOOD!!!

These posts serve no purpose other than softening my stool. You have changed no ones mind, convinced no one of anything, and basically set yourself up as another cliched naysayer.

It's the anti-gracie missionaries. They're everywhere... everywhere...

**Sean Dempsey** · 10-09-2003, 03:35 PM

Guys, I have news for you, Squirrels with hanging nutsacks is NOT a good means of street self defense!! I don't care how many UFC's that the Chip-n-Dale Rescue Rangers have won, my friend does Akido and he'd just put them in a nutsack lock and it would be over IN THE STREETS.

How are you gonna defend your nutsack when the people who have conquered BJJ with "I'll just punch your nutsack when you try to mount me" defense??? With such big, hanging nuts, you'll have to admit that NUTSACK SQUIRELLS HAVE NO REAL WORLD STREET FIGHTING VALUE.

**Szczepankiewicz** · 10-09-2003, 04:42 PM

Pirates deserve little more than instant death at the edge of my blade!

he'd just put them in a nutsack lock and it would be over IN THE STREETS.

Bitty's favorite lock.

**HichieBJJ** · 10-10-2003, 05:11 PM

dempsey i am all for BJJ!!!!!!!!!!!! Not knocking it, its my art!

**gregimotis** · 10-10-2003, 06:24 PM

I caught that too, Hitchie, but his reply was so damn funny, I couldn't quit laughing long enough to point out the error.

**HappyJackSlade** · 04-03-2005, 11:43 AM

LMFAO.
Hows the swingers on the squirell

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