Is Home-training with a book enough for self-defense against an untrained opponent?

[HomeTrainer]

I have an excellent book about BJJ by Renzo and Royler Gracie. It contains color pictures of the techniques. There are about 110 techniques given.

I'm wondering if going through the book and visualizing as best as I can the move, and really applying myself, if I can achieve at least the most minor degree of proficiency.

I have taken about 4 months of BJJ in an actualy class, and dropped out because (quite frankly) it was too hard for me. I'm good at "easier" martial arts like TKD.

I'm thinking of intensly training with the book, and then entering class again. I'm sure I'll be better, and it will be easier to learn once I start going to class again combined with the "book" knowledge.

But I'm very interested in whether you guys think that simply working through the book very throughly (let's say I actually try to simulate the movements in the book for 1 hour a day for 1/2 a year (( so 180 hours practice)), do you think I would be a significantly better fighter than a "normal" person who doesn't have any martial arts training? (The question assumes groundfighting only).

[IPON]

I personally think you answered your own question:

"I have taken about 4 months of BJJ in an actualy class, and dropped out because (quite frankly) it was too hard for me."


No offense but if the BJJ classes are too difficult being a wuss at home with a book is not going to make you any more proficient or increase stamina or mental toughness issues. And grappling by yourself is well silly.......unless you plan to lock the door and wrestle with yourself Don't get me wrong there are drills you can do by yourself but the mat work is the most important for sport or combat

I am just kidding, but seriously, there is no point. Learning from a book , in general, is not great when there is an option for real training, especially when you are inexperienced.

grappling is a unique art that has to be learnoed on teh mat. the nuances and sensitivity cannot be developed at home.

I personally think that you should suck it up, you may need to train outside of the dojo for streghth or cardio I would focus on that and stay in class.

Anyway, just my 4 cents

[grubbogoppoly]

someone once said a black belt is only a white belt who didn't quit.

[Sean Dempsey]

someone once said a black belt is only a white belt who didn't quit.

Abosolutley.

Could you elaborate on why BJJ was too hard?

I am not an athlete, have little natural athleticism, never had brothers or friends who I wrestled with, and I walked into my BJJ academy a green as they come.

I got dominated for about 4 months. I am talking 20-30 taps a night. I am talking having blue belts and high level white belts just destroy me for 3 hours a day. Sheer ownage.

But now they say that I am one of the best defenders in the class, one of the best predictors of attacks (they say they go for an attack they think they have cinched, only to find I am already defending). Just Tuesday, my instructor told me I was progressing faster than anyone else in the class, since I was such a beginner, nowdays even though all the guys who I started with still have the same amount of experience over me, I am gaining on them from being the "little dog."

and nowdays, when a new guy walks in, I am the first guy the class sends them too. And you know what? All of a sudden I see I am pretty damn good.

If I can excel at BJJ, anyone can. Why do you say it's too hard?

[Thai Bri]

Home Trainer - you want the results without the effort. You won't get them, but you sound like the kind of guy who is asking to be convinced that you will get them.

I too train at home (not grappling by the way). I know what Im doing after nearly 25 years of hard classes, and I push myself to my limits.

For you it isn't a question of whether you train at home or not. It is a question of how committed you are. At the moment you aren't. Either don't waste your time or pull your socks up and get stuck in.

[grubbogoppoly]

Sean. .I have a similar experience in my class(although not in grappling) There are at least 4 or 5 guys in my school that have been training since the early 70's and even before that. A lot of the students have been training for around ten years as well. Me. .Well I trained kickboxing about 6 months and about 1 and a half years before I got to these guys. I get beat every time. BUT, it makes you that much better having to go up against someone who is experienced and knows what they are doing. Then you know when you land a technique it is truly an accomplishment. I also have noticed tremendous improvements because of this.

Another one of my favorite quotes. .
there are two paths to take in life. One is the easy and one is the hard. The only reward of the easy one is that it is easy.

[IPON]

I like that last quote

[grubbogoppoly]

One of my friends senior quotes in high school. Not sure where he got it from.

[HomeTrainer]

HomeTrainer here guys,

BJJ was too hard to me compared to TKD. Why? Well I've done TKD for about 4 years, and almost got to a black belt. Probably 6 months more and I would have had it--but then I moved.

TKD came very natually to me. Punches and kicks filled up most of the class (of course), and these things could be practiced at home. I did practice at home a lot--in fact I very much enjoyed it. It maintained my fitness, and burned into my memory the combinations we practiced. Like Jab-Cross-Clinch-Knee-Knee-Push off-Rear roundhouse. After home practice, going to class I found that I could do these movement more fluidly. The home-training worked.

Then I started BJJ. I found that I couldn't do any practice at home (or at least efficient practice). When I got home I'd write down a description of the moves I learned but practiceing them was hard without a partner. Also visualizing the moves was also difficult since I didn't have any pictures to look at (I didn't have the book them).

So I went from a martial art where home-study was beneficial and I enjoyed doing it, to a martial art where home study wasn't both of those things. This was the first strike against it--I no longer enjoyed working on it at home.

The second strike was were I was a Wuss. I kept losing all the time (something I wasn't used to in TKD). I kept it up for 4 months and was only able to win against a new student. So I decided to leave for awhile and reevaluate. I looked at a couple more martial arts in the area but I didn't really want to take TKD again. I guess I realized I what I really wanted to do was groundfight. Time passed and then I found this book.

I'm going to head back to class again, but I want to prepare things as well as possible to maximize the chances of success.

It appears everyone thinks I won't pick up anything from the book. Maybe I'll have to agree. I guess what I'm hopeing for is if I have an "Academic" familiarily with all 110 moves, then perhaps when I see them in class I'll learn them faster. And if I learn faster then maybe I'll stick it out this time. I mean, studying the book before going to class is better than nothing. Isn't it? I don't want to jump into classes again cold-turkey. I want to prepare a little first.

I like very much the no-holds-barred (ha ha) responses. The brutal "You Wuss" stuff actually helps more than a carefully guarded response.

[adacas]

Well then let me help you progress in your training.
WUSS WUSS WUSS WUSS WUSS WUSS WUSS
That should hold you up for a while. Just let me know when you need another verbal ass whooping. JK
Actually I too train at home and have very little experience in a dojo. I do home training because I don't have the monetary funds to train in the classes I want. I practice strikes, kicks and run over some wrist grabs but training in grappling would just be silly...silly...silly. I would beat up on my brother a little more often if it wasn't for him being such a WUSS...and he calls himself an extreme skater . I do receive lessons from my cousin from time to time for free when I would be dishing out some serious cash and I really appreciate that.

[cakegirl]

Hello HomeTrainer,

The books are valuable tools, but they are not going to teach you BJJ.

Everyone gets beaten by all the other students when they first start BJJ, unless they come from another grappling or submission martial art. It's normal. So accept that it will happen, and get over it.

My advice would be to firstly get back into class. Then, once you're back there, doing the drills, training with different partners, that's when you use the book - go up to the instructor or one of your training partners, and say "I saw this move in a book, do you mind working on it with me?" Then you get to practice the move against a real, live body. And it will help to build accurate muscle memory, especially if, after a few goes, you ask them to resist your move.

Cakegirl

[IPON]

I agree with cakegirl.....I would not "over intellectualize" the situation just throw your self back in the dojo and leave the ego outside...you are there to learn. You will always get beat especially when rolling so what, it is not a match, your life is not on the line. If you get beat make the mental notes of why (did you give up, too slow, improper technique, etc) and work on those things. With a book or video don't try to run before you can walk, with that said sure pick out a move and practice it in class, not all moves are right for everybody. In fact I don't think grappling/groundfighting is for everyone either.

Here is one of my quotes from myself

"The mark of a true champion is the ability to rise in the face of adversity"

So TKD was easy, OK, grappling is a different world and it is hard. You have thought about and correctly decided to stay with BJJ. But the issue is not that BJJ is tough, the issue is that it is not as easy as TKD an you have to work to be better (which may also be the case if you went to different karate dojos/Dojangs).

An academic anology would be a high school honors student who never studied for 4yrs and maintained straight "A" and then went to college and realized they had to study alot. This person will do one of 2 things: make excuses for the the poor grades or quitting school or study and rise in the face of adversity and get good grades. Becuase of your honesty regarding the real reason for stopping BJJ........I think you will take the road of a champion.


Good Luck!!

[eXcessiveForce]

This is why you should not ever be a black belt.


What the hell do you mean too Hard. So what if you get beat, that is how you learn.

If you aren't getting beat once in a while you aren't training with people who are good.


Go to class, get beat, and learn. Read a book if you want, read as many as you can get your hands on.

Then go get beat, and learn after you are done wasting your time with the books.

[Kosh]

When you learn a new move (or anything) connections in your brain are formed, as you practice the connects are perfected. Nothing suprising there. But what is suprising is that when you imagin yourself training (or doing anything physical), a part of your brain goes into action and forms the very same connections.

Visualising a technique has been proven to be as effective as actually doing it.

Whats even more suprising is that when you visualise physical excersion, you form new muscle too.

So why cant you learn a martial art fully from a book - because there are outside forces that you brain cant simulate; like gravity or more obviously the way another person will react.

[Tom Yum]

Originally posted by IPON
leave the ego outside...you are there to learn. You will always get beat especially when rolling so what, it is not a match, your life is not on the line. With a book or video don't try to run before you can walk, with that said sure pick out a move and practice it in class, not all moves are right for everybody. In fact I don't think grappling/groundfighting is for everyone either.

Here is one of my quotes from myself

"The mark of a true champion is the ability to rise in the face of adversity"

So TKD was easy, OK, grappling is a different world and it is hard. You have thought about and correctly decided to stay with BJJ. But the issue is not that BJJ is tough, the issue is that it is not as easy as TKD an you have to work to be better (which may also be the case if you went to different karate dojos/Dojangs).

An academic anology would be a high school honors student who never studied for 4yrs and maintained straight "A" and then went to college and realized they had to study alot. This person will do one of 2 things: make excuses for the the poor grades or quitting school or study and rise in the face of adversity and get good grades. Becuase of your honesty regarding the real reason for stopping BJJ........I think you will take the road of a champion.


Good Luck!!

Well said!! The greatest thing about the hands-on MAs that involve free sparring are the humble pie that you have to eat. You win some; lose some.

Some people can't handle humility.