MT & SanShou differences applicable for street defense

[HuSanYan]

bumping this thread for old times sake

bump

[William]

You know, you guys could keep going back and fourth and nothing will ever be resolved. I'm sure terry could set up a fight for everyone to settle things. Or at the very least we could all have a good time.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showpost.php?p=49036&postcount=27

Just saying,

William

[rxis]

My instructor is a JKD instructor and is an ex mma fighter. We could enter the octagon and he would beat me up even if I held him to his "traditional wing chun rules" whatever that means.

Muay thai vs. wing chun...i lose
Muay Thai vs. fma...i lose
muay thai vs. bjj...i lose
either way i get my face smashed

[Mephariel]

Please tell me your joking.

Of course he is joking. He knows nothing about kung fu. He IS a JOKE.

[Eagleye]

I guess because Kung Fu sucks.

Please tell me your joking.

[Rebiu]

Because Kung Fu sucks.

China: Country of 1.1 billion. Scores of different Kung Fu styles and now this "wonderful" San Shou style. There must be hundreds of quality fighters in China.........HOW COME NONE OF THEM HAVE COME FORWARD AND WON THE K1???

I guess because Kung Fu sucks.

[mma_life]

Muay Thai takes it for sure!

I have trained both styles and seen the effects of both, Muay Thai takes it on this one over SanShou for sure!

[Rebiu]

Not to mention they are not to bright either.

you both are meanies

Not to mention they are not to bright either. Though it does not need to be said as there posts make it abundantly clear.

[Tom Yum]

That notion is evidence that it is crap not that it is "combat effective"You mean this guy
Cung Le V Altman MMa Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody? He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.

The fight may have looked like it was worked and may have been, but I will step in and say that Mike Altman knows his stuff....

Last I remembered, he was between the cruiserweight and heavyweight class and had fought a number of kickboxing fights in K-1 Strikeforce under international muaythai rules. He also sweeped up in a number of fights in local MMA.

He was also the first American I believe to win an international San Shou title in China in an elimination style tournament.

He is a really good boxer, a fighter to the core and actually comes from a wingchun background.

[MSand114]

you both are meanies

[Clooneytkd]

I know The police in you video do not try to trade punches they use their equipment just like all police. You are prooving my contention that police do not use martial arts or general fighting training they use training specialized to their equipment and purpose.Arts are defined by a set of moves that are taught. Sports are defined by their rules. I can't find it maybe you could show me the evidence.

Ha, the fact that all the cops had to do is have one well placed knee doesn’t help your argument. watch the video again. you will see so many openings. The scuffle could have been over in a matter of seconds. But the cops lack of training in combat situations, especially when there are 3 on 1 really shows. I mean that’s pathetic, 3 grown men against one guy. Allot of good there mace and batons did them in that situation. the guy's head was down for about 3 minutes and the cops sat their macing themselves and getting chairs thrown at them. Oh yeah, I forgot the guys Rambo’s brother so taking on a bunch of cops and beating the crap out of them is acceptable

.http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmjDaR-fqQM

[Mephariel]

If you could understand context you would know that San Shou was not the Kung Fu that was referenced by the term Kung Fu.He is defensless and stupid. You think he is going to take on the enemies guns with his roundkick defense? So you recognise they are two distict techniques.This guy
Cung le is lameI dunno San Shou acknowledges its MT influence and MT has had the side kick(straight thrust) for the last 500 years.That is not how it happened "dude" The Chinese have a history as claiming to have done everything under the sun one thousand years before anyone else.You have some peculiar hygene. Considering your capacity to understand what is said to you I suggest that is may be the best us you will get from this or any other written word.

So what is kung fu kid? Let see what you know. What are the techniques that makes something kung fu? MT has had the side kick for the last 500 years? That it? Shaolin has the sidekick for a thousand years.

"That is not how it happened "dude"

Yeah, nice evidence. Oh wait, he comes that smell again...

You have some peculiar hygene. Considering your capacity to understand what is said to you I suggest that is may be the best us you will get from this or any other written word.

You don't have the capacity to understand martial arts dude. Just leave the boards. HAHA.

[Mephariel]

Then why does it require special rules to win?I saw the clips you provided. I witnessed San Shou in action. I met Felix Mitchell in a show in Iowa. He defeated Clayton Miller and lost to Travis Fulton. He really talked up San Shou but he looked like a boxer and was easily beaten by Fultons wrestling. Mitchell had been defeated by Ken Shamrock in the UFC. It prooves that hand to hand is not a signifigant part of military training as several of these veterans had used guns and other weapons systems in combat.It is more evidence than you provide as you evidently have either known no veterans or none that have used hand to hand fighting in combat.Some said they had a two hour seminar from some Judo guy or a sargent who knew something, most had nothing. There was no consistent systematic effort to teach them to fight hand to handMaybe they are just stupid. Why would they spend time and money training without equipment? No guns, batons, tazers, or irritants? Maybe they just needed some propoganda for San Shou.This is not training for police work it is a propoganda video.This looks like the two hour seminar stuff used here not a fighting style, no defense against round kicks, just some basic tips.You live in your own world dude.This is a special forces video. There specialized mission may call for more knowledge of hand to hand. My BJJ instuctor rolled with Seal Team six and they were instructed by Marc Denning of The Dog Brothers. They however spent very little time on it. It was the same two hour seminar type situation. There is not comprehensive San Shou type style used by the military as you are claiming. They get just a tiny bit of everything with no testing of advancement. YouFor the tiny bit of exposure some get it may as well mean all. Your contention was the San Shou was developed by the Chinese Military for use in combat it ridiculous. It is for propoganda not real application.It does not matter if Muay Thai is used in the military because it existed independant of that use. You are saying San Shou exist because the military created it not just that the military uses it. That notion is evidence that it is crap not that it is "combat effective"You mean this guy
Cung Le V Altman MMa
Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody? He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.I would not say that Muay Thai is a fakes style.I said the footwork was different from Tiger Kung Fu's spinning elbow.Moron.I did not say they were exclusive. I said Muay Thai has unique techniques that other style borrow but do not use as effectivly.Is this a substitute for an answer. Where are they.Three years Machad Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai from; IMB, Emerald Mongoose, Thin Kong, Boxing from; Kawinin Mau Mau(BJ Penns Boxing Coach). I have been training and sparring for 14 years in California, Iowa, Hawaii and Nebraska. What have you done dumbass.

First of all, you been training for 14 years and you know jack shit about martial arts? What have you been doing? Playing in the ground by yourself? You haven't been training jack shit. And you know jack shit about San Shou. And this post proves it once again. Ok, let's go through the points: Why do San Shou needs special rules to win. San Shou needs as much special rules to win as say...boxing and MMA. Why do boxing needs to prohibit kicking to win? Why do MMA needs special rules that allows groundfighting to win? Do you think Matt Hughes can win in a boxing arena with boxing rules against top boxers? That is the dumbest question ever. Different styles and different fighting medium focus on different things. San Shou doesn't need special rules to win. San Shou have rules that is gear towards the nature of the style, just like boxing and Wrestling competitions have rules that is gear towards their nature of the sport. You saw Felix Mitchell? Felix Mitchell lost to Ken Shamrock in a MMA contest in 1994 when San Shou is barely a sport. How actually did you witness San Shou again? Again, this shows how desperate you are. Felix Mitchell a good representation of San Shou? How is he even a San Shou expert? LMAO. Your next point is even more ridiculous:

"It prooves that hand to hand is not a signifigant part of military training as several of these veterans had used guns and other weapons systems in combat.It is more evidence than you provide as you evidently have either known no veterans or none that have used hand to hand fighting in combat.Some said they had a two hour seminar from some Judo guy or a sargent who knew something, most had nothing."

First of all, you said it is not a significant part of military training. You are just playing with semantics. Hand to hand combat supplements armed combat. That is the truth. Many armies around the world developed their own CQC systems throughout the years. You know a couple of veterans that doesn't engage in hand to hand combat? How does that refute my point that San Shou and other arts are on the training program of their respective military? I am looking for evidence dude. A couple of veterans isn't proof that San Shou wasn't developed by the military. Krav Maga for example, was developed by the Israel Special Forces and is used in the Israel's military. Krav Maga is the official system of hand-to-hand combat and self-defense employed by the Israeli Defense Forces, Security Forces, the Israeli Police and Military Police and its Special Operations and Anti-Terrorist Units. The IDF including their Special Forces Units, Israeli Police, and Internal Security Branches currently uses this style on a day-to-day basis. You need more videos to educate you? So how exactly is this propaganda? Likewise, what exactly do you have that prove San Shou wasn't created by the military? I live in my own world? You are right. That world is called reality. Which world do you live in? Should I trust experts that wrote books about San Shou and my history of following the art, or should I trust an internet kid like Rebiu who knows jack crap about the art? Even your mother wouldn't trust you on San Shou information.

Your contention was the San Shou was developed by the Chinese Military for use in combat it ridiculous. It is for propoganda not real application.

No, your lack of proof is ridiculous. It is not for real application? Then why is San Shou martial artists beating Muay Thai and kickboxing fighters in the ring? Where is the evidence that it is not for real application again?

Here is the bottomline:

You claimed San Shou is not created by the military: You have no proof to back it up.

You claimed San Shou training videos are propaganda: You have no proof to back it up.

You claimed that San Shou is crap: You have no proof to back it up.

Until you do, you are just a little kid spewing crap. You can talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk.

Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody?

And with each post, you get dumber. Cung Le's fight with Altman is his first ever MMA fight. Of course he is fighting nobody. Who do you think he'll start off fighting? GSP? LOL.

He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.I would not say that Muay Thai is a fakes style.I said the footwork was different from Tiger Kung Fu's spinning elbow.Moron.

HAHAHAHAHA. First he tried to guess what Bajiquan is. Then he failed. Now he talking about Tiger Kung Fu...spinning elbow...

Give it up. You know nothing about Chinese martial arts. MORON.

[Rebiu]

you said it.

hard to palm with a boxing glove on

Boy I'll say especially when the other guy is raining closed fisted punches down on you.

[Rebiu]

I knew a guy who went to Mexico.

i think i heard somewhere that to become a policeman or something in china you have to pass a black belt test in shuai jiao

I knew a guy who went to Mexico. The police wore no uniforms, had no guns and demanded money from them.