US vs France ????

[pwedza]

Hey there guys. I have a couple of questions that require a little background before asking.

I am an American who has been living in France for the past four years -- I'm 26. A while back I picked up Muay Thai with a club that, in my opinion, is really great. I'm actually living on the French island of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean. Mayotte, a small African island, is a rather large military outpost housing a large contingent of Legionnaires, Army and Navy.

My two teachers are both military guys, one a former SAS who's day job is training officers. Both have been ranked -- one European and the other international. Basically, really competent guys and it shows.

We have 1 1/2 hour sessions 3 times a week and the monthly fee is 20€.

In France, all sports clubs must be validated by a national organisation called "Jeunesee et Sports." Without a validation, there is no club. Instructors are required to hold a diploma in their sport.
The system seems very efficient in terms of keeping half-baked people from starting clubs and there are quite a few advantages. Namely, the French government helps out clubs with subventions and insures members for any injuries while protecting the club from being sued.
To give an example, six people from my club will be going to Thailand at the end of March and the Fr.govt. is helping pay for plane tickets and enrollment. Not financing the trip by any means, but offering a nice gesture.
What is really cool is that those who are going aren't going to touch the money, instead the are going to put it back into the club to pay for equipment.
The whole structure really makes for an atmosphere of solidarity and brother/sisterhood.

here is a link to the French Federation's site : http://www.ffmda.com

Unfortunately -- at least in terms of the club -- I'm going to be leaving this summer. But I have to say I'm ready to get back to the States for a while.

My teachers have been pulling my leg telling me that I'll never find anything back home that isn't primarily about profit. I don't think that is wholly true, but I doubt I will find anything like I have here.

In a nutshell, this has been my first real martial arts experience. When I was a teenager I enrolled in two different Taekwondo schools -- both failures. One of my teachers was convicted of a rape (that sadly took place in the dojo) and the other was just not too serious. I am by no means generalizing about the state of martial arts in the US so please don't get me wrong, but I was put off after two consecutive letdowns.

As I plan to continue when I get to the States, I want to make sure and find a good gym.

So here are the questions :

How are clubs validated in the US?
What do you guys think about the general level of US clubs/gyms compared to other countries?
How much do clubs usually cost? Is my wallet going to take more of a beating than my shins?!?
What is the future of Muay Thai in the States?

and anything else you might add...

Thanks,
Mike

[@@@]

in my opinnion all western clubs are about profit one way or another. they are sly.

[RayD550]

Clubs in the US

There are many clubs in the US that are great. The big problem is finding one close to your home. I have recently started to think about training and just used the Internet and did a search and found a club that I think is good for me. At the level you are at you may want to find a personal coach who is willing to work with you. That too can be found with a internet search.

Many of the clubs here are solid and good clubs who believe in the true meaning of the sport. Are some of them in it for the money you just need to do your research and see who's who.

You know now that I think about it the club I am starting to train at has no charge for fighters. So if you are serious about the sport I think you will have no problem fining a place to train.

What state and city will you be returning to live once you get back?

[EmptyneSs]

yes its true, most clubs in america are about profit, but then again just about everything in america is about profit. nobody gives a shit about anything other than making money and scamming others. its tough to find a legit place in america, but your best bet is to train at a mma school because at least at mma schools they have to be training people well because they want people from their school to do well when they compete in fights. i had to search for many months and check out many different schools until i decided on a school to train.im happy with my choice, i chose an mma school.

also, schools and clubs in america arent certified or validated in anyway, wich is the problem. any jackoff can start his own school and teach whatever he wants, and claim to be a master of this and that. as for the costs, they vary from 80 - 160 a month depening on what u are learning. for example, at my mma school i train in boxing and muay thai for $99 a month and can train as much as i want wich is pretty good, considering i know of mcdojo's that charge 160 a month for only 3 days a week of shitty instruction. at my school there are a few options, u can train in muay thai, boxing, bjj, and submission grappling. u can take them individually or pay more to take multiple arts. my sschool charges 159 a month for muay thai and bjj.

i say find a mma school, they are all business and arent out to scam people they way mcdojos do.

[JIMI]

Last time I checked, no matter where in the world you are, I dont think anyone starts a business to try to break even or lose money right? K just checking. You guys are bashing on American Capitalism here, but I fail to see where its different anywhere else. What? People in France dont need money? Or any other part of the world for that matter? C'mon guys, I think you are seeing this whole thing wrong......

[pwedza]

thanks guys

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll take your advice when I get back.

RayD : Hopefully I will be in New York or DC. NY seems to have a lot to choose from but in looking on the internet I haven't found much for DC. If anybody has a recomendation please let me know.

Jimi : I'm in no way bashing America here. What you have to understand is that my Muay Thai club is not a business, it is an association. It would be illegal for my teachers to profit from it. Voila an example of something founded in the idea of breaking even. This is how amateur sports work in France. Its the same for judo as it is for ping pong -- and they are pretty damn good in Judo.

As for Muay Thai, my trainer Xavier was four time French national champion, one time European champion and he has competed at a world level. He told me a while back that he and Dida studied under the same professor. Don't ask me to get specific, I'm pretty new to all the rankings, federations and fighters. Actually, I don't even know Xavier's last name. All I know is that he has a day job. He is a commando ranked soldier who trains other soldiers. As a high ranking officer, he is well paid. He is 35 and will retire at 40 -- French military have quite a few perks. After retirement he will either start a new career or be offered an administrative position or something French like that. So, no, he doesn't need the money. All in all, he runs the association because he loves Muay Thai. He started at 9 so why should he stop now.

Anyway, all the money that we put into the club comes back to us -- that is how an association works here. At any time I can ask them to detail how the money is being spent.

[pwedza]

...

And if you are wondering how the rent is paid for the gym, well there is none. There is a communal dojo serving all martial arts, combat sports, fencing and other such clubs.

[RayD550]

EmptyneSs if you would have asked me yesterday if I agreed with you about American clubs I would have said NO but now after last night I must say yes.

After doing some research and hunting I found a club that I thought would be a great place to train at. I went and visited the club at the end of last year and was impressed with the instructor and his way of teaching. Well because of a move and other personal stuff and that fact that the club was closing for vacation I never signed up. Well after talking to a few members on this board they kicked my ass into action. I went to sign up last night and get started. Well guess what......That great price went up now I am not talking a little but a whole bunch. We are talking 300% up for six months. Well that is just no in my budget. It just proves that many not all-american clubs are in it for profit not because they love to teach. Yea Yea I know that they need to pay their rent and put food on the table yada yada. I did some quick math and the school I was at last night was making about 1500.00 per month for the class when I was there. Now multply that by 10-15 classes.

Well now I am looking to see what other options I have I don't think many. I am in South Florida so if any one knows about a place to train that will not break that bank please let me know BTY I am a beginner.

pwedza DC may have some really good places for you to train but you will need to do some footwork. DC has a large Thai community I mean really large. Some of the places may not even be on the books. Once you get there find the Thai embassy and start form there.


Well since I first posted this early this morning I have found a new place to start my traning at. I did a little research and made a call to a school in another state that look good. I asked them for some advice and they had the school and right on hand. Some times things happen for a reason.

[zoti]

in my opinnion all western clubs are about profit one way or another. they are sly.

And I guess none of the Muay Thai camps in Thailand is about profit.