Are Kicboxers Pussies ?

[JoeStagner]

I know that young guys never want to hear anything from an old guy that starts with "back in my day".... But MAN.

When I agreed to play matchmaker for a Muay Thai event I wasn't prepared for how FIGHTERS (and their management) have changed.

When I fought in Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, and the Philippines (in the late 70's) Fighters (Kickboxers) just wanted to fight.

Maybe it's just that Auzzies and Kiwis are much tougher than we Americans...

We nearly never knew who we were going to fight before fright day, or the night before at best. We frequently fought twice in the same night (sometimes in different weight classes) and we were far more interested in being the biggest crowd please than protecting our record.

In making matches for Muay Thai Madness I've been AMAZED at the pussies and primo donnas in Kickboxing.

Some gyms have been GREAT. Wai Kru and Boston Sityodtong in particular have bent over backwards to match fighters and their athletes are GAME and void of excuses.

But there have been MANY others.

1.) One gym (Boston Muay Thai) demanded $125 per fighter for "expenses" (they are 10 miles from the venue) and then withdrew both of their fighters 2 weeks before the event with no explanation what ever. Just "sorry, we're not coming".

2.) Another fighter declined to fight the only person I had in her weight class because they trained together for a few months - years ago and were "friends" (the other so called friend had no problem taking the fight.)

3.) I had a guys pull out because he was diagnosed with TMJ !

4.) I had a pro agree to a fight and the purse only to try to "renegotiate" after I had confirmed the fight. He went back on his commitment to make an additional $150

5.) A "Karate' guy pestered me to make a fight for him and, after advising him of Muay Thai rules he accepted. Some time later he decided he wanted to fight MMA and backed out. (I think he took the fight and THEN googled Muay Thai)

6.) I have several amateurs with Zero or One fight who declined to fight because they would have to cut to the lower weight class (they are primarily SIX pound divisions.)

7.) I had a pro pull out because he had to buy his mother a new water heater (I just checked, they're selling, brand new on ebay for about what he would have earned for a win.)

8.) Apparently New York, NJ, Penn, etc are too far to drive for a weekend even if we pick up hotels, etc.

MMA fighters still........

1.) Drive, Sleep in their car, etc to get fights !

2.) Routinely gain or drop LOTS of weight in order to get fights.

3.) Constantly ASK for fights (they post here)

4.) Fight Hurt

5.) Fight Their Friends

6.) Fight on Short Notice (That's how guys like Ortiz and Lauzon got in the UFC in the first place.)

I've always loved Kickboxing first before MMA and Boxing – but this experience has reminded me why MMA is growing and Kickboxing is all but DEAD in the USA.

If you ask me "Sport Karate" guys are more game these days than Kickboxers.

To make matters worse (or at least my attitude) I just finished reading Jens Pulver's Book "Little Evil" – about a little MMA guy with balls big enough to come in a dump truck!

Any one interested in a shitload of used coaching gear

[JoeStagner]

Promoters vs Fighters

I agree that most promoters are scum.

But when the fighters screw the promoters all the time and the PROMOTERS loose money (THEIR OWN) money - then how can we expect the promoters to feel any responsibility to the fighters. (Understand, I'm NOT a promoter, I own a gym and train fighters, I working this one show to help a friend.)

but you ducked my question.

Fighters who say they wanna fight and then chicken out of any possible excuse are the reason Kickboxing is dead in the USA.

What's more - it's delusional to think that promoters get rich. This is a common misconception of folks that THINK they get it - but have never done it.

The math on the show that I'm doing won't make anyone rich.

By the time you pay for a venue (and they keep liqueur revenue), insurance, ambulance, EMTs, doctor, the commissioner, the SAC percentage of the gate, required Police duty, security, 2 referees, 4 judges, score keeper, timekeeper, ring card girls, an announcer, someone to sing the national anthem, a DJ, ushers, rent a ring pay for set up, sanctioning fees, commissioner fees, pro fighter purses, air travel & hotels, amateur "expenses" and hotels, print posters, print flyers, pay for advertising and publicity, hire a video crew, get a photographer, print the programs, pay postage to ship everything, pay all the fighters $5 for every ticket they sell (pro and amateur), buy gloves, buy headgear, buy food for all the staff, and all the shit I'm forgetting......

I need to sell more tickets then the legal capacity of the venue to make ANY money at all. (Which then means I probably have to "compensate" the local officials.......

If you think this will make any one rich I suggest you are a victim of the NEW MATH - and buy the way, I'm doing this as a favor to a friend who had a show go bad last year and is struggling not to loose his house - so I'm not making a single red penny myself.

And I know, you'll say move to a bigger venue to sell more tickets.

We are in negations (sort of) with the local event center - the DEPOSIT is $60,000

In our show the Pros were all getting paid show money and win money, the wons that needed it were getting air fare and hotels.

The amateurs ARE AMATEUR, but we were providing hotels for the few that were more than an hour from the venue.

Still - fighters and their gyms seem to have no problems making agreements and then breaking them because the contract wasn't signed yet. Many of these are area gyms that bitch because they have to hump their fighters 4 to 8 hours drive to get them fights.

The MMA shows that I've been involved in have not had nearly this much crap from fighters.

I know the fighters side too - I had almost 60 Kickboxing fights myself.

But an amateur who doesn't hold a title is a ZERO DRAW - which menas they generate VERY little revenue for the event.

Why should I guy who puts no more than 4 or 8 asses in seats expect to be treated like Oscar Fuckin' Delahoya.

If you ask me it all boils down to a ton of guys who wanna go to a REAL gym and train some so they can tell their friends that they're a fighter and then use any little thing (like the promoter does take good care of me) as an excuse to stay on the couch.

I miss the days when being a fighter was about finding out what you were made of.

Today it seems more about posing than anything else.

There are, of course, still a few real men in Kickboxing (and there are lots if you go to Thailand, Burma, Japan, Australia, and a bunch of other countries.

[kanik]

Yes.... Kickboxers are pussys. Boxers are more hardcore ^_^, and mma fighters too. I knew this for a very long time... and with what you just said, it confirms my suspicions...

Oh yeah... and aussies and kiwis ARE HARDCORE!

[fire cobra]

Yes Look to Thailand and South East Asia in general to re-new your faith in Thai/Kick boxing guys,no pussy fighters there,kids 7 year old fight full rules 2x per week or more,ive seen a fighter go from one venue to another in the same night to fight again,all with big hearts and big smiles win loose or draw.

[fire cobra]

Finding out what you are made of isnt the Thai fighters reason for boxing,only thing that counts is feeding your brother and sister,or even members of the village you live in! what a difference in reasons eh,how well of are we in the west to have that choice,not many thai boys would box if they didnt have to,they definatly dont do it to find out about thenselves(like i did)or for fun,they would play football for that!.

[JoeStagner]

Feeding your brother.

That's true cobra, but in Thailand "Honor" is at the root most men's ethics.

[kanik]

That's true cobra, but in Thailand "Honor" is at the root most men's ethics.

Honor is HARDCORE. BUt hey... lets not go into that as I've allready had my head partially gnawed off because of it... Thai fighters are good. But actually come to think of it, it ait just kickboxers going downhill... it seems most everyone is losing guts these days... *shakes fist angrily at the sky* why!? why!?

[fire cobra]

That's true cobra, but in Thailand "Honor" is at the root most men's ethics.

I agree Joe.

[JoeStagner]

I think your right kanik.

I just bothers me more in regards to fighters.

[rickyparis]

Pussies are pussies, nomatter the discipline a lot of promoters wasted my time, but I don`t regret having fought. It does n`t matter , you wil find fighters , maybe you`re just not looking in the right places make a beter agenda man, that`s all .

[the tick]

Whats TMJ?

[MilkAndInnards]

Kick boxing in NZ is still very much how you described in the original post.

We fight on very short notice. We look to fight as much as possible.

I've personally never fought more than once in one night, but I know people who have. Once the guy I was meant to fight pulled out, and we couldn't find anyone else to fight me. So I ended up fighting a guy 20kg heavier than me! (for an exhibition match). I was 64kg and he was 84kg.

All in good fun though eh?

[MilkAndInnards]

guys would agree to fight just so they could get their pictures on the posters, then they'd pull out of the fight and keep the poster so they could tell stories about how they whupped ass when in fact, they never even had the balls to show up. Now THAT's pussified!

Now that disgusts me. People like that should be punished severely. Perhaps punishment by getting put in the ring with a real fighter.

[bodhisattva]

Community = joy

No Community = much less joy

[Garland]

I think they ought to get gang raped by the entire crowd at the event. I mean seriously! That's just some punk behavior right there.

Is this the dicks **** pussies, but they also **** assholes philosophy?