Western boxing and Muay Thai ?

[george stando]

Gambling is huge commerce for the sport. I mean you cant mess with the gambling section at a muay thai fight!

[george stando]

Getting back for a moment to the actual scoring, i think like you said firecobra this is an important thing to understand almost intimately. I mean if we fight here without that knowledge that you are leaving alot out in the open so to speak. Winning is really about full understanding of the rules and how to make it work for you. Just go out and swinging for the win, is not what will sustain a long career. I am interested in getting a more deeper understanding and continuing this conversation.

[fire cobra]

Getting back for a moment to the actual scoring, i think like you said firecobra this is an important thing to understand almost intimately. I mean if we fight here without that knowledge that you are leaving alot out in the open so to speak. Winning is really about full understanding of the rules and how to make it work for you. Just go out and swinging for the win, is not what will sustain a long career. I am interested in getting a more deeper understanding and continuing this conversation.

Yeah George imagine trying to play any other sport without knowing the rules!.

A Boxer has to know if he is ahead in the fight or not in order to either go forward or back off,the fight changes all the time with one boxer scoring with a good technique and the other trying to get it back,you could be ahead in the round with 10 seconds left and have a score against youthat wins the opponent the round.

When sparring recently my teacher let me knee him 3 times,on the fouth time he threw me and said that has just cancelled your last 3 knees out,such is the value of off balancing your opponent,off balancing and striking him even better,getting behind your partner is also a high scorer,both of these methods(off balancing and getting behind) ultimately showing control of your opponent and therefore the contest.

I have seen so many people in the west (myself included) that are winning the fight and still want to go forward and "make a fight of it" when I realise now there is no need,the opponent has to come to you,and if your defence is good and you are in control off your emotions he shouldnt be able to get the points back,if he for example lands a kick you got to land one straight back then its equal again and so on and so forth.

Im definately not an expert in the scoring area George,but I do realise as you do just how important it is to grow our knowledge in this area.

Contributions welcome guys and gals.

[Guest]

Its a very valuable discussion, and is certainly helping me in my goal to understand the art.

Another angle I was given quite strongly in my recent training, and Fire Cobra has touched on this, is that the ability to prevail and come on strong towards the end of a fight is key. Hence - so much conditioning.

It was explained to me that you can pretty much just endure and stand your ground for the first 2 or 3 rounds, and even to the untrained eye you may appear to be losing those rounds. However, if you come out in the 4th and absolutely dominate your opponent this shows resolve and tenacity, and the judges may score the fight in your favour.

[Kvntu]

IMHO, I think the first one who adapted boxing into Muay Thai was Soonthorn Taweesit or Kru Kimseng. In 1903 When Kru Kimseng was 14 yrs old he went to singapore for study. In Singapore he had class of boxing according to National Sporting Rules. After his graduation and came back to Thailand he continued studie Muay Thai from many masters. Especially Kru Kiew at the border of Ayutthaya and Saraburi. Kru Kimseng's knowledge of boxing made him great advantage of the use of puches.

MT today doesn't use a lot of old style punches but they adapt boxing punches into it.

Soonthorn Taweesit or Kru Kimseng? Interesting and that would give significant history to boxing being incorporated into Muay Thai. What an amazing and advanced art and I can see why Bruce Lee held it in high regard.

[george stando]

Its known actually that boxing and the different rules like ref/ring, etc were integrated in to create muay thai and move it away from the old muay type of bare knuckle fighting.

[george stando]

How much comes into play lets say also going into the 4th and 5th if you avoid the clinch or effectively stay out of it and continue working, how will that affect scoring. When many bouts have that crazy war in the 4th and 5th that almost invariably go to the clinch.

Another point that was mentioned was really the strategy of how to go on to win when you have the fight won or at least way ahead in scoring, as firecobra eluded to, lets say I got it won and i will dance and engage then dance away and engage, how many times have we seen thais do that knowing they got the decision and not chance anything wild happening in the last round. Can a farang play it the same way and have the same outcome?

[black crown]

Kvntu,

In the last post. I meaned the boxing style of punches, footworks, blocks, etc..

But the rules and equipments is different story. I don't have my refferences at the moment. I'll write back later.



George,

I would say that who controls the fight win. And If you play it the same way as scores leader in the fight. please make sure that your score is totally ahead. Because it's not easy for foreigner to hit exactly the same movement as Thai. That's why sometimes pattern of movement does matter in scoring. You think you hit right and hit hard. The question is, is it right and hard enough in the eyes of judges?


BTW,

Farang came from the word "français" in French. But Thai pronouces it as Fa-rang-set then shorten to Farang. There were a lot of Frenchmen in Ayutthaya kingdom 4-500 yrs ago.

[fire cobra]

How much comes into play lets say also going into the 4th and 5th if you avoid the clinch or effectively stay out of it and continue working, how will that affect scoring. When many bouts have that crazy war in the 4th and 5th that almost invariably go to the clinch.

Another point that was mentioned was really the strategy of how to go on to win when you have the fight won or at least way ahead in scoring, as firecobra eluded to, lets say I got it won and i will dance and engage then dance away and engage, how many times have we seen thais do that knowing they got the decision and not chance anything wild happening in the last round. Can a farang play it the same way and have the same outcome?

The 4th is usually the money round George,both boxers will go at it and want to win it,depending on the style of the boxer(and the match made) will dictate how the fighters approach the round,ie if the match is a clincher v a clincher as is often the case in Lumpinee then thats where they will look to score by off balancing and knee strikes,if its puncher v clincher then the puncher will look to counter the knee with a ko,a technical fighter or classic fighter will look to move away from the clincher and use full range of weapons.

Can a Farang play it that way? I think so if he knows and can play the game,have a watch of this link to see a French boxer who knows how to win at Muay Thai.

YouTube - Antuan Siangboxing Vs Sapapet Sor Sakaopet Lumpini Stadium 2009

[fire cobra]

Kvntu,

In the last post. I meaned the boxing style of punches, footworks, blocks, etc..

But the rules and equipments is different story. I don't have my refferences at the moment. I'll write back later.



George,

I would say that who controls the fight win. And If you play it the same way as scores leader in the fight. please make sure that your score is totally ahead. Because it's not easy for foreigner to hit exactly the same movement as Thai. That's why sometimes pattern of movement does matter in scoring. You think you hit right and hit hard. The question is, is it right and hard enough in the eyes of judges?


BTW,

Farang came from the word "français" in French. But Thai pronouces it as Fa-rang-set then shorten to Farang. There were a lot of Frenchmen in Ayutthaya kingdom 4-500 yrs ago.

Black Crown,

I agree who can control the fight(and himself) will win the fight.

[george stando]

Great info, thanks. I agree in part fighting in muay thai to win involves understanding how to play it to win. I am absorbing this all.

[kyuss]

what about round scoring? i heard they start at 10 and deduct points rather than add? sounds unusual but thats what i heard.