To listen to other people or not to ?

[kh_s]

Okay so to be successful in a way, as in hard work, like shin conditioning, iron shirt, iron hand and such. You get a good idea from your instructior or your friend who teaches, or a professional. So you decide to do it their way. Now you go talk to other people, including this forum and you hear them talking about a topic that is similar to the stuff you are doing. Now you find out that some of the ideas discussed were really bad and leads to bad health later on in life; arthritis, shin bone surgery, etc. etc. What do you usually do, do you stay away from the idea, or keep on going ?

Is it okay to take risks in life ? Like, "Ahh well F**K it I`ll do it anyways, and besides you never know what is going to happen in the future, why not do some crazy, different, interesting stuff while your still here"

[platinum_angel]

you should always listen and then you can decide for yourself. my advice would be to not roll bottles on your shins and train with a heavy bag. i think it is to much of a risk. if you are going to get better results with the bag why would you use the other method. don't be hasty.

[JIMI]

Ok i can see where you are coming from. I think that the best thing you can do is just go by what your instructor says to do. I know that there may be better ideas by some in here and maybe some tips here and there, but ultimately you must have complete faith in your instructor. Do as he says and follow what his instruction is, otherwise give him the respect to at least leave his gym. Dont go there unless you are willing to completely surrender yourself to him and his instruction. You must have faith in his ability. If not, then go somewhere else.

[William]

Dont go there unless you are willing to completely surrender yourself to him and his instruction.

This rant is not directed specifically at JIMI. It's just when I hear/read
statements like that, it makes my hackles stand up. It's just a "Raw Nerve"
subject with me.

I understand what you are saying here, but "completely surrender yourself"
is extreme. Have "faith in his ability", absolutely. From a combative
stand point as well as faith in his/her ability to teach/transfer those
skills to you (the student). Admittedly I come at this from a jaded point of
view.

At one point in my MA journey I had an FMA/Laoation kickboxing (carbon copy
of MT) /Tibetan kung-fu instructor who from a combative standpoint was a
very capable
fighter. But from a human/personal standpoint, turned out to be one of the
most twisted individuals I have ever had the misfortune to cross paths with.
He came across as very friendly and willing to bend over backward to work
with you. He made a point of letting you know that he didn't talk smack of
other instructors or systems and that he was completely open. as the months
rolled by he would start to say things about other instructors (including his own ) and started talking
smack about God, religion, and that he had magic powers etc... It all
started very
gradual with little comments here and there until one day after training
with him for close to a year he walked right up to me a said he was a
Warlock. (?????) We (myself and the others that came to his school with me)
had stuck it out there because like I said earlier, he was good from a
combative standpoint, and at the time the main FMA/MT/JKDC instructor (who I am now a full instructor under) in the
area wasn't taking on new students. So we felt stuck in the situation.
Toward the end he was saying things like, "If you find any big spiders at
home (Brown Recluse or Black Widow), bring them in, I like to get the poison
from them and make (some weird concoction to put on the door knobs of
people he doesn't like)...". Myself and another guy finally left. Two other
friends hung around a little while longer. I found out later that after
class one night, he locked up the school and took one of those guys down to
the basement (where he would work his Iron Palm) and had him put rock salt
into his mouth, turned out the lights and did some chanting type thing. Why
did this guy let him do it? He was willing to give himself completely over to
this instructor. As twisted as it sounds, it was a gradual build up of
control that he was able to use over some of his students, the ones who were
willing to give themselves completely and not question the "instructor". I
could go on about the different, strange things this guy would do... Since then I have run into a number of "former" students of this guy who all have similar stories.

What's my point? Instructors are people just like everyone else. We have our
good points and our bad ones. Maybe we should be respected and/or admired
for our abilities and accomplishments. But, we are not Gods. We don't have
magic powers, and we do make mistakes. Always question things that don't
seem right, or don't make sense. And never "surrender your self completely"
to anyone. Being an individual is what makes you, you. Otherwise, your just
a puppet for some one else to control the strings.

Anyone who has ever trained or worked out with me knows that I will never tell them to NOT train with someone else---EXCEPT for this individual. I feel it should be up to the student to explore and find what is "right" for themselves. I just have first hand experience with this person that I feel others shouldn't have the misfortune of experiencing.

Rant over.

William

[JIMI]

K maybe that was a bit extreme , however i still believe in the ancient tradition of the Master / Servant or Teacher/ Student type relationship. And no i do not support slavery. Basically all i meant was if you want to go to a specific gym then do it THIER way. What would be the point to go to a particular gym, then get on line and recieve maybe completely different advice on technique then go back into the gym and possibly question your instructors advice? If i were an instructor and my student came to me and said " so and so from this internet thai boxing site says that i should do it like this" i would immediately tell the student to go home and think it over if he wants to learn from me or some unqualified advice from some guy online. I know that sounds harsh but i cant see it any other way. Ask any instructor including Master Chai. In fact i DARE anyone to question Chai at seminar and go ahead and say some guy on the internet said blah blah blah , and i GUARANTEE he will say "sir who is the teacher and who is the student here?" Please leave my class unless you intend to follow my instructions. End of discussion

[William]

I agree with you up to a point.

You do this technique this way=OK

You do this technique this way...and surrender your soul to me =NOT OK

That's the point where you better start looking at the situation and do some serious questioning.


If i were an instructor and my student came to me and said " so and so from this internet thai boxing site says that i should do it like this" i would immediately tell the student to go home and think it over if he wants to learn from me or some unqualified advice from some guy online

Well, I'd show them why that is or isn't good advice. Then if they keep doing it, then I might consider your method.

As far as questioning Master Chai in that manner? Id' take the advice of someone who has Walked the Walk over some unknown on the internet any day.

William

[ryanhall]

K maybe that was a bit extreme , however i still believe in the ancient tradition of the Master / Servant or Teacher/ Student type relationship

Dont go there unless you are willing to completely surrender yourself to him and his instruction. You must have faith in his ability. If not, then go somewhere else

Respect is important, but it should be earned. It is not due to any old guy who opens a gym and starts teaching. You are the one paying. Did you join a school or a cult? I'm glad the old "Master","Sensei","Sifu" stuff is fading away. If you were going to learn how to build a house from a master carpenter, what would you call him? His name (either first or Mr. ____), or Oh Master of Woodwork to Whom I Owe My Life and Unending Alliegance? I hope it would be the first option. Would you get the guy coffee if he asked for it? Probably. What if he told you that he was your Master and that you must lick the tar off his porche? Give me a break. I would hope that you would tell him to go to hell. The martial arts are no different. It is a skill, and you are paying to learn it--not to wear odd clothing and find a new deity. One needs to have self respect. If an instructor is threatened by different ideas, then he is a poor instructor who is not confident in his own abilities and is not worthy of your time or money. A good teacher will always take the time to explain why they do what they do.

[JIMI]

Who the **** said anything about surrenduring your soul? That is not what i implied at all.

[William]

Who the **** said anything about surrenduring your soul? That is not what i implied at all.

Whoa there fella. I didn't say that YOU were asking for souls. It was just an extreme example taken from what I wrote earlier. Point being, if the instructor is saying; you do the technique this way, fine. But if they start asking for more beyond the MA context, then re-evaluate the situation.


You: If i were an instructor and my student came to me and said " so and so from this internet thai boxing site says that i should do it like this" i would immediately tell the student to go home and think it over if he wants to learn from me or some unqualified advice from some guy online


Me: Well, I'd show them why that is or isn't good advice. Then if they keep doing it, then I might consider your method.

That was the only point I was refering to YOU personally.

William

[Szczepankiewicz]

Any instructor worth their salt makes it a point to address the concerns/questions of their students.

I often start conversations with 'I read on the internet forums that....' and my instructor snickers and gets the wry smile. But after I make my points and ask my questions, we discuss them and see if they are applicable or how one should deal with these issues if they arise. Sometimes the questions ARE indeed foolish.

Anyone whom I am supposed to be learning from, ESPECIALLY if I am paying them, better be prepared to answer questions. Otherwise I am outta there.

Granted there is a time and a place for Q and A. Constantly challenging an instructor every time they open their mouth is very counterproductive.

When I teach, I enjoy answering questions from the students. I also encourage them to find their own answers. If they need to ask the Sensei, I encourage that as well. If they find that I am wrong on something, then I request they let me know as well so I don't confuse the issue further.

There isn't an instructor in the Valley whom I couldn't do serious damage to in an altercation. If their ego is so large they cannot tolerate questions, then I will demand a demonstration.....

Yeah, it's not the proper martial path, but snake oil sales are down all across the state...


Spanky

[JIMI]

I agree that they should of course be open to answering questions, however if you are second guessing your instructor at the advice of joe schmoe on the net, then i think thats just plain stupid. Everyone in here has advice and thier own veiws on thai boxing strategy and style and technique, but that doesnt make them necessarily qualified to give that instruction.

[ryanhall]

Nor does it disqualify them. By the nature of the 'net, you don't know who you are talking to. Just to illustrate my point, it is time to reveal my true identity. I am Master Cha...Just kidding. But seriously. For that reason, you should be skeptical about advice that you receive here and anywhere. Just because someone doesn't wear their credentials on their sleeve doesn't make their advice unworthy of you. To put it simply, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are equal. If your instructor refuses to even consider or explain other methodologies and ideas, then he is worried about losing you to a possibly better school of thought. A good motto to have is: "don't tell me, show me." If whoever you talk to can prove that their way is a valid one, then fine. If not, then it's time to look elsewhere.

[William]

There isn't an instructor in the Valley whom I couldn't do serious damage to in an altercation. If their ego is so large they cannot tolerate questions, then I will demand a demonstration.....

I agree with you there Spankster. AND DON'T ASK ME WHY!!!

I personally feel that you always should be open to a students questions. Sometimes they are Q's that make your eyes roll, but it's part of being a teacher. To answer their questions and show them why something will or won't work (or be humble enough to admit that they might have a good point).

William

[JIMI]

Again i never said that a teacher should not be open to answering questions or explaining why he does things the way he does, but again the question arises, who is the instructor and who is the student? did you come here to teach or to be taught? this is starting to get old

[William]

JIMI,
I'm not trying to put you on the spot here, just trying to understand your position. First you wrote:

If i were an instructor and my student came to me and said " so and so
from this internet thai boxing site says that i should do it like this" i
would immediately tell the student to go home and think it over if he wants
to learn from me or some unqualified advice from some guy online

I understand what you're saying, but it also says to the student, "DON'T question me".

Then you wrote:

Again i never said that a teacher should not be open to answering questions or explaining why he does things the way he does...

Which implies you are open to questions.

...but again the question arises, who is the instructor and who is the student? did you come here to teach or to be taught? this is starting to get old.

Which implies that you are not (or are at least very annoyed by them).

A student who doesn't ask questions is either very good and is understanding everything. Or, they don't get it and/or are too intimidated, shy, or un-secure with themselves to speak out. As Big Bird says (a little influence from my toddler here); "Questions are a good way to find something out". My students asking questions just gives me a chance to show them "why" my way works. In no way does it threaten my position as the instructor. They know that I'll go out of my way to help them understand what I teach, AND that I have absolutely no problem backing up what I say. As your own SIG states: DONT MISTAKE KINDNESS FOR WEAKNESS! A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down...jeeze, too many kids shows.

As I said, I'm just trying to understand your position because you seem to contradict yourself.



Mr. Szczepankiewicz, do you mind sharing your next session?

Professor William