Have you ever got into a fight with a soldier ?

[MinisterofDeath]

if they become a POW I doubt they'll have a wepaon in them

[ryanhall]

If they become POW, they won't be able to fight their way out of an armed camp--real life isn't a Rambo movie. They would sneek out and run, or hope to be rescued/traded for.

[Kingston]

Originally posted by ryanhall
Defensive? If you say so.
When did I say that? I said that MILITARY PERSONELL DO NOT FIGHT WITH THEIR HANDS!! I'm sorry, but I don't care who tells you otherwise. Can you tell me why a soldier would not have a weapon with him? Especially special forces? Can you?

they ran out of bullets?

.......so hostile

[ryanhall]

Ran out of bullets, so they charge the enemy with empty hands? I can't even comment on that one

[Kingston]

Originally posted by ryanhall
Ran out of bullets, so they charge the enemy with empty hands? I can't even comment on that one

lol, well, i was joking

but seriously, why have a good H2H system? i say why not!

[chris davis 200]

I went against an ex - royal marine (about 40 Yrs old) when working the door. He was real strong (more than me anyways) but he was a little drunk, so i had quite a substantial upper hand! He didn't prove too much of a handful but you could tell he was a good fighter.

Also went against a sober royal Parachute Reg guy and 2 of his friends - (there whre 3 of us working at the time so i wasn't alone) Again there wasnt too much difficulty, i think if i had a) tried to box (ie kick box or western box) with him or b) gone to ground with him (friends n glass ow!) i would have been scr*wed but i guess he wasn't expecting a soft tai chi like approach and i knocked him out after a couple of strikes.

Also!! went up against a regular infantry guy who was HUGE! I was cr@ping myself about having to throw him out but as it turned out he smashed his face into the floor from one standing lock! which was nice!

Thats all!

Anyways, there you go!

Cheers
Chris

[chris davis 200]

Also i think that secret service (MI6/5 n CIA) guys etc would have far more developed H2H skills than most military personell etc. The nature of their work means that they are not able to carry weapons easily in certain situations.

But i also think that well developed H2H skills are essential for special forces, alot of missions are covrt and if trying to be stealthy and someone comes close, you not going to blow their head off (draw any more attension?)you are going to do it as effectively and quietly as is possible. (i supposed silenced weapons too! depends on range!)

also in the Iranian embassy seige it is accounted that several SAS had to engage terrorists H2H or Gun 2 hand, of course that was not a problem!

cheers
chris

[Szczepankiewicz]

Let's see. Back in High School the thing to do was to go find Air Force Floppies and beat on them. I never joined in, I knew too many 'floppies' from the gym. You know, the guys that bench Rhode Island?


Later on while in the Army, I got pretty close to a few fights but either I was smart enough or the other guy was smart enough to walk away so neither of us got the dreaded Article 15.

Since I have been out I haven't gone looking for too much trouble. I just like to talk tough on the internet, makes me feel like a REAL man!

Spanky

[Guest]

From what I understand much of the military H2H isn't up to much any more. Who knows, they may teach "secret" stuff to some "secret" units but, for the most part I reckon it is just myth and movies.

I do know that they taught a great system to British Commandos and other elite units in WW2, but it was all a bit too nasty to retain in peace time.

Your average lower rank soldier (even elite levels) is rarely going to be particularly discerning and educated. Teaching them how to kill with bare hands is asking for the deaths of members of the public when the guys are on leave, or out of the service.

Some units now turn to BJJ for a base in their training. Why I do not know. What are you going to do, grapple the Taliban?

[Szczepankiewicz]

When I was in the Infantry, we went through the obligatory H2H training from the Army Policy Manuals.

Before, during, and after, the Drill Instructors made it very clear that if we thought we were billy badasses and took this stuff into Columbus to the bars we'd be dead meat.

My Brother in law is a marine that is suffering through some hokie almalgamation of TKD and grappling that the Corps is putting together. He is of the opinion that it is useless. I would have to agree.

If anything these guys should be taught kendo or FMA. They almost always have some kind of weapon available.

PR 38 can opener duel anyone?

Spanky

[dave_UK_MT]

Originally posted by chris davis 200
also in the Iranian embassy seige it is accounted that several SAS had to engage terrorists H2H or Gun 2 hand, of course that was not a problem!

cheers
chris

In the book I just read that detailed the Iranian embassy seige there was no hand to hand stuff, the SAS blew the shit out of the terrorsit with MP5 machine guns.

Thats not to say I'd mess around with an SAS fella, they're harder than nails and then some.

My best mate, who's had a couple of boxing matches, had some grief with a couple of squaddies in the local pub when they were jeering at his misses.
He knocked one of them out with the first punch and saw the other one off fairly sharpish.

Best way is not to mess with anyone really.

[Guest]

Thats very true re the Iranian Embassy seige. The BBC did a "20 years on" programme recently, and 3 of the actual SAS soldiers were interviewed.

There was no hand to hand. The terrorists that put up a fight were executed with maching guns. The terrorists that tried to surrender were treated the same. The only person to survive managed to pretend he was a hostage long enough to get outside under the glare of the media, and even then an SAS soldier tried to drag him back into the building to see him off.

No H2h, but plenty of killing.

[chris davis 200]

You are probably right,

dont know where i got this from, but i thought that there were 2 occassions there they used H2h techniques one involving a terrorist attacking from a side room, he was thrown to the ground and shot, and one where a guy was holding a granade and was at to close range and was kicked down some stairs and then shot. The granade was releasd from his hand and an SAS guy dived on it, luckily it did not detinate.

To be fair when i read or heard they used H2h i was a bit sceptical. But still i wouldnt mess with an SAS guy!

Death would be fast!!

Cheers
Chris

[JIMI]

I think i have lost the point of this thread. To me what does it matter if you can kick a soldiers ass or not. What is the point of a question like that? I think its outright offensive to our enlisted men and women. After all do you think you have the guts to dump a few ragheads? Thats how stupid this question sounds. They may not be the best trained when it comes to hand to hand combat but my guess is they are a hell of a lot more ready for a war, and we arent.

[Guest]

Chris - after thinking about it, I think they did use H2H, but only to the extent that they pushed/puled the baddies around before they executed them.

There were two guys sat down with some hostages, making an obvious attempt to surrender. Both were dragged up, put against the wall, and then shot. This was confirmed by hostage testimony, and found to be lawful killing. After all, how could the soldiers have been sure the terrorists dint have a nasty trick up their sleeve.

Same re the man on the stairs. He was one of two people who had tried to pretend to be hostages. They sussed out who he was, and the fact he was holding a grenade. Then they pushed him away and put 17 bullets in him.

Guess what! He died!