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  • #16
    Basic Principles

    What I have found from personal experience is that the Martial Arts of many different countries/cultures have more in common than not. This follows from the observation that the Theory of Fighting, though continually growing, is founded on a finite number of principles. So though I’ve only been learning Muay Thai, Kali, JKD, Jun Fan, and Wing Chun for 4 months, I can integrate it into ~20 years of Aikido experience [along with bits and pieces of this and that].

    What we see in different Martial Art Systems is a unique cultural interpretation of these principles, as they have developed within the idiosyncrasies of their respective cultural influences. With a solid foundation in the basic principles of the Theory of Fighting and knowledge, or better yet, experience within a systems culture, the specific application of techniques is more readily apparent.

    When we speak of ‘Traditional Martial Arts’ it is important to note the differences between that Art within its indigenous culture – how it was designed to function - and how it is represented outside of it. Within its respective country/culture a given Martial Art may be extremely effective because all practitioners will have certain customs and practices in common. In terms of being the direct progeny of conflict, i.e. War, most Martial Arts systems have an inherent nationalistic quality about them as well - a unique fingerprint if you will. Obviously if you have an effective means of eliminating your enemies you don’t want it to fall into their hands and used against you. So the combination of the aforementioned is why many systems learned by outsiders are “incomplete”; in part to protect it from ‘misuse’ and in part because some concepts don’t translate well between cultures, if at all. Conversely, nationalistic myopia will keep a Traditional Martial Art from dealing effectively with others across cultures – hence political conflict and its pitfalls.

    In the melting pot that is the United States, we are literally made of diverse cultural influences, with deep differences which persist to this day. What we are seeing in this day and age of globalization is a unique “worldview” approach to various systems, and all Martial Arts systems - as well as their respective cultures - have their strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately, this is a blessing and a curse. A blessing because we can compare different systems to one another - seeing what is effective and what isn’t. A curse because this comparison is often superficial due to our own cultural bias, and therefore, ignorance; we don’t often see a true representation of a system, and we don’t often understand the finer points of why a system is practiced a certain way – we aren’t immersed in its cultural background enough. A potentially paradoxical Pandora’s Box. Keep in mind here that ring fighting such as K-1 is just that, ring fighting, and the same goes for UFC and other NHB venues – it simply isn’t real combat and it would be a fallacy to think otherwise.

    At the heart of true Martial Arts training is the most basic principle of all – honesty. To paraphrase Sun Tzu, ‘know your enemy, and know yourself, and in all things you will be victorious’, this is where the rubber meets the road, and what makes you a true Martial Artist…or not. It is a way of life, not a recreational diversion, and ‘nary the twain shall meet’. See yourself honestly, question your paradigms, keep an open mind, grow beyond yourself – it’s all easier said than done. Yet, this is what we commit ourselves to in training sincerely – to better ourselves and hopefully the world around us as well.

    So we see that certain paradigms prevail in a given culture, and the strength of the principles contained therein is reflected in their Martial Art systems - some more readily effective than others. Whatever principles a system may contain, it is ultimately the individual who has to learn, absorb, and apply them effectively, in combat and in life. If something doesn’t work, question yourself first, not some abstract concept prone to misinterpretation. There is always a winning solution and the answer lies within.

    So in summary, if I find that I’m getting my clocked cleaned, the systems I’ve studied aren’t to blame, I am. Hopefully I’ll survive and reassess my paradigms, etc, and grow from the experience. To answer the original question posed in this thread: Use whatever technique works best for you in taking advantage of the openings your opponent gives you.

    Just my rather long-winded thoughts on this subject,

    ~W2
    Last edited by Ice; 02-13-2003, 12:53 PM.

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    • #17
      rt

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      • #18
        TO ICE: If you came up with all that on your own, then I'de say you have the intellect and wisdom to write a book.

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        • #19
          Aw, shucks...

          That's all mine - thanks for your positive comments.

          ~W2

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          • #20
            stickign to basics is great but what if you get another person who is stickign to basics also itll be a contest of who is stronger and faser, also Its bullshit that fancy moves dont work I have seen a guy defend him self against a guuy about his size a little bigger with a 360 i think its a tkd kick where you do a 360 and hit you oponent in the head with a foot(not a spinnign heel kick cause in this move his other leg didnt touch the ground durign it). The other guy was out cold they had to get him to a school nurse until he woke up and was liek what happend wher am I? the guy didnt rememebr what happend but I sure did.

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            • #21
              yeah thats a good reply ice sorry i didnt read it before i answered

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              • #22
                Typhoon- You come agianst an attacker who knows good self-defense and your fancy kick will be the perfect chance that the attacker needs to hurt or kill you. We are also talking about real fights that could mean your life. Not school ground fights that where if you lose you end up in the nurses office.

                P.S. Your a little young to be preaching kid.

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                • #23
                  kid? sorry I am not a kid, and what I am talking about is a regular fight not a fight with a pro just a fight with someone on the street like a brawl with two peopel arguing, and yes I agree basics do wonders but some,very few, but still some what may be considered fancey moves do have their place, and can be made to work. A kick to the head for example may be considered fancy but yet why do they do them in Muy thai? is muy thai not considered one of the most realistic stand up fighting? In thai kickboxing a kick to the head can very often end teh fight easily BUT only if you are able to do it, some TKD brown belt thinkins he is the s*it cause he just won a competition and tryign to do some amazingly hard move thats just gonan leave him open and is easily countered yes he will lose its ppl liek those that give high kicks a bad name.

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                  • #24
                    okay this is just a little note for the person who said something to the effect that people compete and no one gets hurt. (it was back on the first page and there is no way in hell i'm going back through all that to find it.

                    There have been 3 confirmed KILLS in TKD tournaments in the last 3 years. I have no Idea how many more but I know of three. One was a kick to the throat in California. There was one in Europe and another in the united states.


                    just food for thought.


                    There are some things within styles that are useful but are no longer practical.
                    Some techniques are not useful simply because most of use are not in the same condition the people who created them were in. Most of us do not have the same build, or strenght that many people possessed from years of hard labor trying to make a living.

                    Arts must adapt. For instance, Not many attackers where trying to grapple with Koreans so there is little call for grappling in TKD.

                    Ninjitsu works with poisons which the use of today in most cultures would be considered illegal.

                    Weapons systems must deal with the fact that weapons that they train in may no longer be readily available. SAI for example, Swords, Spears. Or the carrying of the weapons would violate the local laws.

                    Look back 10 years and there wasn't much need to learn grappling because not many people were any good at it. Now everybody learns so grappling so now arts that may not of had it if they are going to remain a valid form of combat will evolve. This however does not mean everyone in that system will evolve.

                    People are stupid. Some people will hold on to defunct systems and resist change because of tradition or politics. But a true martial artist will always seek to better themselves. That means they will seek out areas they are weak in and fix them.

                    Some people say "oh you don't do TKD because you cross train." They are wrong I do TKD and I could learn to fix my weaknesses on my own but why reinvent the wheel. Somebody else already has had that weakness and found a way to overcome it. Probably several people. Why waste time trying to find a way when one is already available.

                    I have tried to experience as many arts as possible simply because the more you see the more you learn. The more you are exposed to the better chance that if someone does attack you, you may have seen a similar attack and may already have devised some strategy with regards to that particular attack. Or you may be able to more easily devise a counter from different parts of you experience.


                    If you speak to a person who believed they were going to die but managed somehow to escape they will often talk about their life flashing before their eyes. Most people use this as a cliche, but really they are telling you the truth. Their mind literally scans as quickly as possible their entire memory looking for something close enough to the current dangerous situation that may lead to a successful way to avert the impending death. If they don't the probably died. If they did they probably will take some action whether that saves them or not is dependent upon how effective thier course was that was chosen.

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                    • #25
                      Crouchtig.....alas we knew him well.......last thing i heard he was deleted from the forum for white supremicist remarks.

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                      • #26
                        How long do you figure it would take to train someone in jump kicks such that they'd be capable of knocking a charging, sword or spear wielding horseman off his mount?

                        Wouldn't it just be easier to cut down some trees, fashion some long spears and just knock the horseman off their mounts that way? Or lure them into a valley and throw rocks and boulders down on them? Or lure them into marshland (thus negating the horses's mobility) and deal with them there?

                        Why is it that other cultures that had to deal with charging horsemen decided to do such outlandish things like use weapons to deal with the threat or lure them into terrain where their mobility would be neutralized or took the rather unsporting tack of KILLING the horses and chopping their riders down to size rather than deciding to train their citizen-soldiers for the several years required to turn them into an army of spin-jump-kicking TKD killers?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by retired
                          Crouchtig.....alas we knew him well.......last thing i heard he was deleted from the forum for white supremicist remarks.

                          quote:
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          the only major racial difference is the presence of the banana picking gene within populations of black people oh and just to prove im not racist white people are gay too and smelly asians
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                          "That's enough. You're finished. Your glaring insecurities and innate disposition towards obnoxiousness aside, that crossed the line."

                          Racism against three major races, insecurities and obnoxiousness. Well worth a banning. Bri Thai got banned a while ago. Never even got a chance to meet Thai Bri, it's a shame really because they share alot of the same opinions and could have been great friends...

                          Who actualy has the power to ban people? Can you ban a moderator to get rid of the competition then rule unchallanged over the 16 realms (forums)?

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                          • #28
                            What got Crouchtig banned was actually much worse than that.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by terry
                              What got Crouchtig banned was actually much worse than that.
                              What did he do?

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                              • #30
                                Uppercut is the best, when you land a good uppercut your opponent flys upwards and back. This gives you time to execute a more powerful attack like an acid spit, flying bicycle-kick, or an ice blast.

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