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The kickboxer's trap.

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  • The kickboxer's trap.

    I saw this article on another website thought it was interesting. Although I’m taken back by the tidal cuz’ I’ve seen plenty of other styles specially people in karate do this.


    By Arthur Sennott
    Taken from Inside Kung Fu May 2001 Issue

    By Arthur Sennott
    May 2001 Issue of Inside Kung Fu

    If you are a kickboxer, there is nothing wrong with your sparring looking like kickboxing. In fact, that would be quite desirable. If, however, you are a kung-fu practitioner, sparring that takes on the form of kickboxing is quite a problem.

    Unfortunately, the majority of kung-fu practitioners look primarily like kickboxers when they spar. Falling into this practie is the "kickboxing Trap". But there is a way to avoid the trap altogether or at least escape if you've had the misfortune to fall into it.

    This "Kickboxing Trap" is primarily the result of ego. People fall into this because they fail to see or understand that sparring is a learning and training process, not a competition. When a fighter sees it as a competition, the ego takes over and he becomes concerned with winning. When he becomes concerned with winning, he feels the need to "beat" the person who now has become his "opponant".

    When we feel the need to beat someone, certain psychological phenomenon tend to affect us. Thhis leads to a variety of small snares that play a significant role in combining with several other factors to form the kickboxing Trap. Below is a list of these individual traps, and more importantly, their solutions.

    Trap 1: Trying Not To Lose

    The desire not to lose makse our attacks less fequent and more cautious, one might even say, hesitant. This approach leads to attacks, characterized by a "probing" type of offense.

    While this method may be indicative of what's seen in some major sporting events, most notably boxing, it is generally the antithesis of what happens in a real-life situation. It is important to realize that when someone attacks you in the real world, he is doing so because he wants to hurt you! He is not interested in scoring points. He is interested in not losing.
    He is not interested in lasting the full time period to comply with the rules! He is attacking you! At the very least, he is trying to hurt you. He will throw strong, determined attacks. While he might not be over extended, he will generally be committed. If sparring is to be an effective drill to teach fighting, it must be reflective of this.

    When we resort to the "hesitant offense", we severely limit our opponents ability to counter attack. While this is in accord withour wish "not to lose", it does nothing beneficial for the drill, our partner, or ourselves. When we cease to attack our opponent, we deprive him of the chance to truly defend himself. Sparring without the necessity or ability to defend oneself is at best a one-sided drill.

    As we become the hesitant attacker, we tend to psychologically manipulate our partner into one of two roles. Either he mirrors our approach and makes the drill completely useless, or he becomes overly aggressive, in the hope that "something will happen". Creating the overaggressive attacker has more benefit than the passive participant, but not much.

    The overly aggressive attacker changes his methods and ceases to practice his art, depriving him of the ability to practice aht he needs. This again makes it a one-sided drill at best. Furthurmore, the aggressive and careless attacks you are likely to get at this point are of lower skilllevel than your partner is really capable of, which decreases the value of the drill for you as well.

    Trap 1: Solution

    So how do we fix the trap? By subduing our ego. WE fix the trap by offering our partner some legitimate attacks to work against. we shouldn't worry so much if he scores. We need to create an atmosphere where it's understood that people will "offer" such things. Hopefully, your partner will begin to participate. When you become non-competitive, he will have nothing to compete against; then the training can begin.

    Furthurmore, by giving your opponent something he can potentially defend against, it allows you to develop your counterattack skills and learn to work from a disadvantageous position. Now we have a drill that is not only beneficial to two sides, but beneficial to those sides on multiple levels of depth.

    Trap 2: We Try To Move Faster Than The Opponant

    In our desire to score of look good, there is a tendency to try to speed up faster than the opponent. At first glance this may seem advantageous and desirable, but it is actually counterproductive.

    If we do not closely examine the concept, we may be fooled into thinking that commonsense tells us that "beating the opponent to the punch" is ideal. However, if we eexamine this idea more closely, especially in terms of sparring, we will see that this is not true.

    There are two aspects of this trap. They can manifest individually or jointly. They are:

    * If our opponent is moving slower than full speed when sparring, or is a slower opponent than we might face on the street, then scoring a technique by speeding up creates a false sense of success. Had the real - life opponent been moving at full speed, the technique would not have worked. SOme may argue that you could just speed up too, but this is erroneous, because you are already moving at full speed and cannot go faster than you can ultimately go.

    When sparring, you must move no faster than the tempo of the present relationship. To do otherwise will lead to an incorrect view of skill and a false sense of success. IF we achieve a false sense of success, then we have received incorrect feedback and our training will be flawed.

    * As we move closer to our fastest speed, the ability to see new things and emerging opportunities decreases. Our speed of movement is proportional to our "speed of sight". If we move slowly, we see other things move slowly. If we move quickly, we see other things move quickly. If we move slower than our partner, we will see more openings and opportunities. We will have a greater chance to explore and try new things.

    This opportunity to experiment is one of the things that allows good kung-fu practitioners to apply the movements of their forms to their sparring, rather than falling into Kickboxing Trap.

    Further more, when we practice at too fasta a pace, we will tend to revert to "what we know". This keeps us from exploring what we do not know (i.e. how to use proper kung-fu applications). In addition, this reduction in the ability to see new opportunities will mentally reinforce our belief that there is not place to insert those "fancy" applications from the forms. We have created a self-fulfilling prophecy that dooms us to the "Kickboxing Syndrome."

    * Attempting to move too quickly during sparring decreases the amount of mental and physical control over our bodies, and forces us to divert too much attention into this regulating process. When this attention is diverted it is frequently taken away from our ability to remember our assigned/chosen roles for the individual sparring session.

    Ceasing to play our assigned role for the other participant in the sparring session, we in effect become his opponant rather than his partner. This leads to many of the same problems that result from the "Trying Not To Lose Trap".

    Trap 2: Solution

    There are two very simple fixes for all aspects of this trap. The first is to ask your partner to go as slow as you need to go to keep your eyes open to all possibilities. The second is to always move at the same speed of slower than your opponent regardless of the rate he is going.

    Trap 3: Undefined Goals

    The last major issue, which tends to drag sparring down to the level of a poor - quality kickboxing match, isundefined goals. Remember, in a real situation the attacker has a goal, otherwise, he wouldn't be attacking you. That goal might be to hurt you, kill you, rape you , kidnap you, detain you, or a variety of other intents. When we spar without defined goals, we once again deprive our partner of anything to defend against.

    Some may say the goal of sparring is to win. While tht may be a goal for a competition, it is not a goal of proper sparring. Even if winning were a legitimate goal of sparring, it is too broad-based an idea to be of substantive value in training. Winning and scoring points do not represent concrete achievable tasks for combat preparation. What wins a point of match in a westling bout could ultimately lose you a Judo contest, so you see winning and points are arbitrary and theoretical.

    When trying to practice productive sparring, it is necessary to have defined, concrete goals that can be seen, felt or discussed, and that are specific. Only in this way can success be measured, and appropriate benefit be given to our partner. There are an infinite amount of these types of defined goals.

    Trap 3: Solution

    To fix this trap you must cease to engage in vague sparring practises. Create and practice goal-oriented sparring exercises. It's useful sometimes to have a referee secretly assign goals to the participants; this keeps them from falling into Trap 1. Think of it as a game of capture the flag. It's always more fun if the flag is a little hidden.

    Included are a few examples, but it should be understood that the list is limitless. These goals are for one of the participants, but it ususally works better itf the second participant has a different, but complementary goal.

    Sparring Goal Examples

    1. Attempt to get a headlock
    2. Attempt to go to the ground
    3. Keep from going to the ground
    4. Evade opponent without any contact (and without running away)
    5. Trap or immobilize your opponent's arms
    6. Defend without moving your stance or legs
    7. Try to drag or push your opponent over a defined line (good for anti-kidnap work)
    8. Avoid using any striking techniques, while your opponent tries to strike you.

  • #2
    i have a more simplistic philosophy that disagrees with that: IF YOU WANT TO WIN, TRAIN TO WIN.

    wouldn't it be good if instead of a punchbag or thai pads you could make a robot dummy that could vary in size, weight, speed, speed, strength and skill. it could spar with you but you could hit it full power and do arm-breaking/groin kicking moves like in a real fight. you could create virtual sparring partners with individual styles and abilities. fight three at once. have one on your side. make two identical ones with different styles fight to the (virtual) death.

    it will happen, one day. perhaps ill be the one to do it. if not im getting one anyway

    Comment


    • #3
      i want a robot dummy that you do your combo's on eg: jab, cross uppercut, cross, hook.
      but when programed each time you hit one of the pads it quickly rotates for the next punch.
      (man those pads ache sometimes) although i know it's good to hold them so you dont drop your guard when your tired but if your on your own it's awkward.
      MAKE ME ONE NOW PLEASE!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        It sounds nice, I hope Bill Gates won't make it.... otherwise it'll crash!

        Interesting article. I always tell my partner to slow down, so I can strike correctly and see things incoming. Because, he didn't listen, I often kick him accidently in the groin area, lol, for I was trying to be faster than him!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The kickboxer's trap.

          Originally posted by darrianation

          If you are a kickboxer, there is nothing wrong with your sparring looking like kickboxing. In fact, that would be quite desirable. If, however, you are a kung-fu practitioner, sparring that takes on the form of kickboxing is quite a problem.

          Unfortunately, the majority of kung-fu practitioners look primarily like kickboxers when they spar. Falling into this practie is the "kickboxing Trap". But there is a way to avoid the trap altogether or at least escape if you've had the misfortune to fall into it.
          If this was the case, then did the kung fu schools I looked into/trained at taught kung fu as well as kickboxing techniques? An example of this would be the Lau Gar schools in the UK - they teach kung fu and kickboxing?

          In the Hung Kune school I trained at for a number of years, we were taught the traditional kung fu stuff as well as kickboxing techniques?

          I think another question that should be asked is why this persons students aren't trying to use the techniques found in forms in the first place? If the students find them to be flowery and useless, then its because of two reasons:

          1. They haven't been training long enough to apply them properly
          2. The techniques are genuinely useless and its far safer to spar in a kickboxing manner (guard up, jabs to probe) etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bristol Lau Gar Death Squad by any chance?
            came up against those chaps a few times on the mixed MA curcuit while doing kung-fu, man was naithen good or what!

            Comment


            • #7
              If, however, you are a kung-fu practitioner, sparring that takes on the form of kickboxing is quite a problem. Unfortunately, the majority of kung-fu practitioners look primarily like kickboxers when they spar.

              Usually it means that they can't work their Kung-Fu techniques in semi real-real time so they revert to what works. MT/kick boxing is pretty basic compared to a lot of other arts. But, that's what makes it so effective and workable when the sh!t hits the fan and the adrealine is pumping. Those intricate fine motor movements go out the window. I've posted a few times in the past about my experiences with a co-worker who was a Shoulin/Manits Kung-Fu practitioner. He could work his stuff very well when we were going light. But when we ramped it up, he could pull very little of it off (straight knee got him every time ).

              I use the term "escalato" to describe the light sparring that escalates to all out fighting. Usually happens when two guys with egos are sparring technique (weapon or open hand) and one guy scores. Now the other guy has to get a lick in. It ramps up a notch each time and they go back and forth until they're going all out. If you know your students, you know who is prone to doing this so you keep an eye on them and step in when appropriate.

              William

              Comment


              • #8
                William, you are obviously an experienced teacher. I'll admit that my motivation to land strikes increases each time I catch one, but I try to let it slide. There are some guys that spar at maximum power/speed even if you ask to keep it down one notch. Then again there are tough guys who can control their power at will.

                Straight knee? That would put a rain on anyone's parade. I don't throw knees while sparring. BTW how do you defend an unclinched straight knee?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good posts here.

                  Honestly though I think a lot of martial arts guys fall into this problem, especially those who do not spar allot. I know I do when I haven’t sparred in a while. That is why it is so important to spar especially free sparring. I’ve seen guys with black belt but for one reason or another hadn’t spar in 6mo. Have a real hard time against a yellow belt who has been sparring 3-4 days a week, but has only done karate for six months.

                  I was told by MT instructor years ago that when I spared I should always have a goal, and don’t be afraid to get hit etc. I think this is very good advice especially for the novice. I always have two or three goals when I spar. Always work the jab (I do this every time I spar), practice getting the clinch, and working deferent short combos. My fav’ short combo is basic but works well- jab, rt.cross, rt. lowkick. Anyway sparring often and regularly is important.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just want to relate a story to all of you.

                    Way back when I was a white belt (1977) in wado my school went to the phoenix wing chun kung fu academy for a match with them. First we did katas. They blew are katas away. Their katas were very flashy and cool to watch much like something you'd see in a disco club. Also those guys were very, very good at performing them. They were very technical. Next were the self defense demos. Again theirs was cool much fancier and flashier than ours. I was new to ma so I thought these guys to be the bomb.

                    When it came to the sparring we did not loose a single match. We destroyed every one of them. It was no contest at all. Even their top students were no match for ours. They had a real hard time using their kung fu. A lot of them especially in the lower belts resorted to fighting like us.

                    Afterward I was talking to one of them and I said your katas were damn good, but what happened with your fighting. He said they spent most of their time on katas (especially weapon katas) When it came to sparring it was mostly prearranged sparring. They did do some free sparring but not much. I was very glad I went to a school where we sparred in every class.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      tom yum
                      defence against a straight unclinched knee:
                      hold your front hand out and push the guy in centre of chest to alter his balance while bringing your rear hand across your face incase of punch & tilt your hips away from him (front leg stays straight and rear leg bends)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cool article. Arthur sennot is a Systema guy. I can see where he got the influence for that article, and it kind of explaines why we do things the way we do it in class.

                        Thanks again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          tom yum
                          defence against a straight unclinched knee:
                          hold your front hand out and push the guy in centre of chest to alter his balance while bringing your rear hand across your face incase of punch & tilt your hips away from him (front leg stays straight and rear leg bends)


                          Good. Another option:

                          (I'll describe this from a right lead), opponent delivering a
                          left straight knee):

                          Take a slight shuffle step to the right (45 degrees) and cut the path of his
                          knee* with your left arm,( keep your right guard up) shaving down across his
                          leg to deflect the trajectory of the knee. This will turn him to the right
                          leaving his left side open for a quick right switch knee to the buttocks,
                          kidneys or back. Keep your guard up, anyone worth their salt will try to
                          flow into
                          a right spinning elbow when you turn them.

                          *(DO NOT TRY TO JAM OR BLOCK THE KNEE)

                          William

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So darrianation, do you agree with the original article. I have to read it again carefully, but it makes some good points.....as in people worrying too much about winning and not focusing on their training.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Kick Boxing Trap...

                              Gee, where's all the Straight Blast Gym guys? I expected to hear some criticisms about training being a waste of time if you don't go with a fully resisting opponent!

                              I have to agree with many of the points of the article. I have progressed much faster when the pressure and speed is held constant at 50-75% of full sparring, leaving me room to persue the timing and execution of specific techniques and tactics. I believe it is most important for beginers and intermediates, and anyone trying to acquire new methods to work techniques in sparring in a gradually escalating manor. But I do agree that it should also go toa point of a resisting non coreographed sparring.

                              Ray

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