weightlifting?

[work765]

those of you that lift weights strictly for kickboxing; how many sets and reps are you usually performing for your key movements? i.e. squats, bench, deads, and pullups? I was wondering at what rep range do you start to concentrate on muscle pump as opposed to strength and explosiveness? I want to get strong and quick, not big and slow.

[jcolvin]

There are couple of threads on this topic under the muscle & fittness forumn.

I personnally don't weight train for just kickboxing, but instead for my martial arts activities. One of the threads I mentioned earlier talks about setting goals, well I believe that your weight training should be geared towards those same goals.

The thing that took me a while to learn in my training, MA and Weightlifting, is that it does not matter how many exercises you are doing or how much weight, but how intense is the workout. The intensity will make you develop.

The quickness will come from your cardio training and conditioning and speed drills. To keep yourself from getting to big that will be in your diet.

[terry]

Work765,

I wish it were as simple as copying a routine from an existing lifter to establish your own program. Unfortunately, that can lead to unpredictable results and possibly injury.

To do strength training right for martial arts requires you to set out a multi-year progression that should include the following:

- Learn proper form
- Learn supplementary exercises as well as contrast exercises (chains & bands) and learn when AND WHY to use them
- Increase tendon strength
- Increase functional strength of prime movers
- Increase strength & coordination of stabilizer muscles
- Increase ability to perform under conditions aerobic stress and ATP deprivation
- Develop training methods that will help in recruiting of fast twitch (explosive) muscle fibers necessary for martial arts (note: bodybuilding methods specifically don't do this)

I would really recommend you get with a strength training coach to put in some solid fundamentals. A good coach can turn years into months in terms of your develoopment. Once you do that then you can tune your strength training for your yearly goals, whether that be competition sports, street, etc.

A good reference for the overall program (not particular exercises) would be "Periodized Strength Training" by Tudor Bompa. But that is in addition to, not a substitute for, a good coach.

Good luck,

Terry

[work765]

Terry,

I used to be really into bodybuilding for about 3-4 years, and also a bit of powerlifting. So i know basically all the fundamentals there is to know about bodybuilding, etc... but then again the sport is constantly changing and will always be. So thats why i posted my question. I know bodybuilders usually try to go for size and rep ranges that induce that are between 6-10, and power lifters are repping a lot lower than that, and testing there 1 rep max as well. Don't get me wrong there are a million other things that bodybuilders and Powerlifters do different than just rep range, so please dont try and test my knowledge. So i was wondering if there was a common thought of lifting weights for those of you out there that train in stand up striking sports. I was thinking maybe twenty reps / 3-4 sets of the major key moves and try to do them explosively as possible, and not being concerned with weight amounts. Just an idea... It also seems that most guys that post in the weightlifting/martial arts areas are mostly concerned with MMA, or BJJ, or alike. And most replies to strikers are Plyometrics... so i was just seeing if someone had any good ideas....

[work765]

oh yeah, i think i might have that book as well, but i'm not at home, so not sure.

[terry]

Ahhh. Cool. Forgive me, but there are a lot of beginners online and I kind of assumed that here. Well, a staple of my weight training workouts are speed reps: 10 sets of 3 at 50-70% of 1 rep max w/ 30 sec rest interval. Explosive speed is the name of the game. That applies to bench, squat, deadlift. The role of the spotter is to time you with a stop watch and log performance. When you can get these done in under 3 seconds you increase the weight by 10 lbs. That trains your body to explode on the downstroke to get into the upstroke. If you do it right the weights will get get airborne off the bar at the top of your stroke. (The above is drawn from Westside curriculum for powerlifting.)

I tend to cut down the rest intervals pretty short for a couple of reasons: 1) competition martial artists must perform under conditions of ATP deficit; 2) competition martial artists must perform under conditions of aerobic or anaerobic stress; 3) I only allocate an hour for weights before moving onto other training, so a shorter rest interval gives me more room for additional exercises. I slow up when doing max'es, but normally I bring down the rest intervals to 30-45 seconds. (This, BTW, is not original thinking and is recommended for athletes such as boxers, judoka by several olympic coaches. See Poliuquin, Vershansky, Bompa, Roman.)

Of course, there are a bunch of other things to train: Heavy weights for tendon strength, circuit training for muscular endurance, lockouts for sticking spots, band work for explosiveness, etc. Actually, I really like bandwork, especially because I can fit it in my suitcase when I travel. Lately, I've been doing (flat and incline) dumbell bench presses at ~35% 1RM on a fit ball a couple of times per week on my off days to work stabilizer muscles. I went flying the first couple of times but now I have the hang of it. Another thing to try for stabilizer muscles is chain pushups (w/ cable pull handles). Then you can make it harder by putting a band around your shoulder and putting your feet up on a fitball. Real good for your stabilizers, which all too often get ignored.

T

[work765]

thanks.

[sk12879]

Originally posted by terry
Another thing to try for stabilizer muscles is chain pushups (w/ cable pull handles). Then you can make it harder by putting a band around your shoulder and putting your feet up on a fitball. Real good for your stabilizers, which all too often get ignored.

Hey T,
Could you explain how to do this? I'm always looking for new ways to hit the muscles in my workouts.

[work765]

yeah i was a little lost on that chain push-up aswell. Please enlighten... I'm familiar with using chains on your bench, you basically attach chains to the bar, and when the bar is lifted up, more of the chain comes off the ground thus makeing the easiest part of the lift for some even harder. For most people the lock-out/top part of a bench press is the easiest, so you put on chains to strentghen that part of the lift so it gets fully taxed. On the other hand i am still fully clueless as to what chain push-ups are.

[terry]

Okay, let's see: chain pushups. Get two six foot chains and hang them from the top of a smith machine such that they nearly hit the ground. They should be mounted about 3 feet apart. Then go get two single hand handles from a cable pull machine and attach them to the end of the chain.

Now, get down in pushup position (body facing down) and put your hands in the handles hanging in the air. Come down deep and push out a pushup all the way to lockout. You will feel rather unstable and have to work at keeping your hands from wandering away. 10 sets of 10 should be just fine. (You'll fatigue faster than regular pushups because of the instability.)

Next step, increase the resistance by placing a band in each hand and around your shoulder. The green bands from jumpstretch.com will add about 75 lbs of resistance at lockout.

Third step, put your feet up on a fit ball. We're not talking your shins, just your feet and/or toes. Between the balance adjustments you'll have to make with your hands and the balance adjustments you'll have to do for your feet you'll have quite a time. The instability will force your stabilization muscles to contract and create a tight base from which to work your prime movers. And strengthening those stabilization muscles will help you prevent injury in, for example, jujutsu.

Clear enough?

Terry

[sk12879]

Great Terry, muchas gracias! Now I just have to find some long chains or something similar.

[work765]

Terry,

very impressive bud!