Instructor Level

[CHOPS]

After reaching your aprentice level. what are the other levels and how do you reach them?

[retired]

What Style are we talking about?

[CHOPS]

Sorry about that, I was asking about the thai boxing assoc. usa curriculum. THanks for your reply

[retired]

Well iv'e been doing thai for 9 yrs over in great britain but i just help about in the gym with anybody whatever level with techniques or training but haven't been as lucky as my instructor to train & fight in places like thailand & hongkong so i lack some of his experience, not to say i dont know what i talk or teach mind.
Anyway onto what you asked: my instructor grades students but i have never been interested in peoples qualifications or grades as i know when training or being taught by them if they know their stuff so i never delve into it sorry & only join associations for inssurance purposes.
(i didn't help there much sorry)
maybe someone else can help (lots om MT people here)

The only way i ever grade people is how they fight.

[retired]

Belts Just Hold Up trousers!!!!!!

[CHOPS]

Its true belts do hold up pants, and as far as i know the tba does not use a belt system. I've been practicing M.T. for 5 years and am an apprentice instructor. There are 3 levels, 1-3. 3 being apprentice level. I beleive there is then associate and full instructor, but i am not sure. The reason i want to know is because that is another goal to reach in martial arts. You see anybody can teach or go to the local dojo and pay for a black belt. The TBA doesn't work that way. you get what you earn. Anybody who has taken there level 3 test can atest to that! Thanks a gain for your reply.

[KZL]

From what I understand, to go above apprentice requires that some of your students attain apprentice level.

I could be wrong though.

[CHOPS]

Thanks Keith,
Ive heard that, but i can't get a forsure answer. How many instructors do you have to make? Does it have to be a certain amount of time before you can move up? Anyway, thanks again.

[KZL]

Hey, no problem. I believe that it is 2 of your students becoming apprentice instructors makes you a "full" instructor.

[terry]

I had a hand in developing the instructor guideines about 12 years ago. (Makes me feel old.) At the time there were only two levels of testing: beginning and advanced. Only two people had ever successfully taken the advanced test, which is 5 rounds on the Thai pads with Ajarn Chai.

What we did was systematize the apprentice level test as well as add some shadow boxing to it. As far as ranks above instructor level, that was something I think I drew up based loosely on the instructor structure that Guro Inosanto had: apprentice, associate, full, senior. I don't know, I'd have to look it up. It went something like 5 year minimum time teaching at each level plus the requirement to produce a certain number of fighters and/or instructors.

What you should realize is at the time we were concerned about several other things. Those concerns were:

1. To organize the Thai Boxing Association into an institution that could outlive Surachai Sirisute and remain strong for generations to come. That meant going beyond the personal loyalty that is the basis of the TBA and, in my mind, entailed providing some services--such as a central camp, a newsletter, a web site, equipment, discounts--that would help bring people together across a wide geography.

2. To use modest fees based on the services above to generate a small amount of income to support Ajarn Chai so he could live and retire in the dignity that he has earned. (These fees are extremely modest compared to what other martial arts organizations charge.)

I don't know if you've ever seen somebody you care about struggle to provide for a family. Well, it made a deep impression on me. Holding little Chai in my lap and bouncing him on my knee while I watched how they struggled financially really got me. I didn't want to see Ajarn Chai face a financially destitute future like that of Adriano Emperado. He deserves better.

So, more than a decade hence the results are mostly a failure when measured against the objective of what we set out to achieve. Although some organization has been introduced, almost none of the services has been sustainable. The reasons are as follows: 1) People haven't contributed content to the pubications, which left the editors on a burnout track trying to do it all themselves; 2) People haven't paid the small royalty (~$200 per year per school); 3) Ajarn Chai hasn't been able to slow down and continues to re-aggravate old injuries in an attempt to provide for his family.

The exception is the Oregon Camp, a notable success. After losses in the initial years, it has returned a small profit to Ajarn Chai, mostly through the amount of volunteer labor that that a small but vociferously dedicated band of Pacific Northwest students provides. Our most heartfelt thanks goes out to these people.

Anyway, back to the ranking structure. I thought it might be a good idea at the time. Rachel Ramierez, Ajarn Chai's common law wife, liked it. Don Garon thought it would be a good idea and helped with some of the particulars. We discussed it at the Oregon Camp and people seemed supportive of the idea. But we were also kind of hesitant about the whole thing because, well, who the hell are we? Finally, I think it was Paula Inosanto who said something like, "Well don't wait for Ajarn [Chai] and [Guro] Dan to make a decision because they'll never come to one. Just do it." So, this whole thing became more or less a policy.

Is it flawed? Well, if it is I think it was because it was written by people who care much more about seeing their instructor live with dignity than they do about how Thai boxers measure and judge themselves. If it's not right, then let's hear what you think. None of this is cast in stone.

But if you take up the challenge of molding an institution like the TBA, I ask you the following: Will you also step up to the challenge of caring for the welfare of a man who as given so much and asked for so little in return?

Terry

[skilzkid]

Wow, that gives me an even greater level of respect for Ajarn Chai...especially since the last Chai seminar I went to (also the only one I've been to), he was giving all of the proceeds to help out Greg Nelson.

As for the Level 1-3 tests, I found this a few months back:

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/mt/tbatest.html

If that's accurate, you could throw that up on the TBA website for reference.

[CHOPS]

Terry and Skilzkid,
WOW, Thankyou so much for the history and taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it! I guess NOW will be a good time to send in my membership for this year.
Thanks again!

[KZL]

Terry. Thanks for the post. I don't know if there is anything wrong with the testing process. And I agree that Master Chai shouldn't have to worry about providing for his family. Unfortunately we all have to worry about such things, and it seems to be a bad time for martial arts in my area (PA).

I can also appreciate the idea of aggrivating old injuries. I have a pretty screwed up elbow, that doesn't flex the entire way anymore, and has a build up of scar tissue there. I aggrivate it at least once a week.

I also found out about 3 weeks before the last pittsburgh seminar that I have developed asthma, and my lung capacity was down about 40%...

Personally, I'm hopeful that my somewhat tortured body will remain intact long enough to survive the level 3 test., because I really want to teach.

thanks,

[OctaviousBP]

Out of curiousity...

At the time there were only two levels of testing: beginning and advanced. Only two people had ever successfully taken the advanced test, which is 5 rounds on the Thai pads with Ajarn Chai.

Who were these people?

Thanks!

[silver]

sounds like people are worried about ajarn chai's financial future,why does'nt he with members of the TBA produce a set of training videos,or how about publishing a book on muay thai.these are just a couple of ideas to make money and spread the art of muay thai.it's hard to believe with all the senior people involved with the TBA,this has never been done.this would generate some good income thus letting ajarn chai rest and let his body heel.i'm sure he has a wealth of knowledge that people could really benefit from,not everyone has access to his seminars plus have a video series would make a great reference to in teaching or learning.this is just my 2 cents worth.