muay thai vs kungfu

[retired]

Nah i beg to differ, after seeing the shaolin monks in the flesh i have lots of credit for those guy's & the conditioning they go through.
(who else grows callase bone on the top of their head? after battering each other against bags like battering rams).

Thaiboxer = Hard
Shaolin Monk = Well Hard

[Great Sage]

Retired,

I too have seen the Shaolin Monks, live and in person... They were extremely talented and acrobatic, but that's not fighting. After their demonstrations, I met with some of the Monks who performed feats of strength... A 5'3" monk had me try and push him, which I couldn't do because his base was so strong. The key here is that I was pushing at his upper body, while his lower body was rooted. I asked if I could use my technique and proceeded with a single-leg take down: drop on your knees, grab an ankle and drive forward with your shoulder... He started to smile as I sat him down.

[Szczepankiewicz]

One thing is for sure, the Shaolin Monks are NOT gay.

However, Sage is suspect.

which I couldn't do because his base was so strong.

Nope. It was because you're so weak!

And that's gay.

[Great Sage]

RUN, for no one is safe from Spank...

[Szczepankiewicz]

Or swim...

either way is a good method of escape.

Bitty on the other hand is stuck. He can't run and, as we all know, turds float... so no swimming.


Sux to be Br'tish

[JimmyRice]

I do not think you can really ask if one martial art is better than another. Kung Fu is a chinese art that goes deeper than just fighting and is an art of self enlightment cordination...etc. Muay tai is the art of one on one, in the ring, beating eachothers brains in for entertainment...So if you want to know who would win in a one on one fight in the ring, a Tai fighter would win. In the 1970's (I am un educated on the details) 10 Kung Fu masters traveled to Tailand to fight Muay Tai champion/champions, and all ten were knocked out. Don't get me wrong, Kung Fu is very powerful. My point is, you can't try to make something of an art that its not, or you will be dissapointed.

[S.Anucha]

Jimmy no offence but you clearly dont understand Muay Thai it is not

"...Muay tai is the art of one on one, in the ring, beating eachothers brains in for entertainment..."


I am afraid that is not what Muay Thai is about, its about self dicipline, 6 hours a day training harder than those shaolin guys sure would take a lot of dicipline, huh? its about respect, performing the wai kru ceremony before each fight takes respect and to do it beautifully and with poise takes dedication and genuine respect for ones trainer and ones opponent and for the Buddhist roots in Muay Thai. i

n the ring is where one gains experience and over all knowledge of how to fight, the ring is an important side of training, if you train and dont fight dont expect your training alone to prepare you for a fight! I prefer to fight in a ring, at least i know his mates are not going to jump me nor will he beat me to a pulp or to death when I am knocked out! Ring fighting has its differences to a so called "street" fight, street fights are ring fights without the added security of "rules", whats the difference between a hit in the ring and a hit on the street? none!!!

[MuayThaiFighter]

Originally posted by Great Sage
Retired,

I too have seen the Shaolin Monks, live and in person... They were extremely talented and acrobatic, but that's not fighting. After their demonstrations, I met with some of the Monks who performed feats of strength... A 5'3" monk had me try and push him, which I couldn't do because his base was so strong. The key here is that I was pushing at his upper body, while his lower body was rooted. I asked if I could use my technique and proceeded with a single-leg take down: drop on your knees, grab an ankle and drive forward with your shoulder... He started to smile as I sat him down.

I too have seen shaolin monks live and seen some of the stuff they can do from serious training,they train more then the average person.I think the defeats they have accomplished like
being able to move motor bikes while tied to them by legs and arms are amazing,being able to get kicked in groin without moving an inch and all those cool jumps and aerobic stuff they do,everything I saw them do was just outstanding.I also saw them move a van with a sword and blade facing their stomache wich most people can't do,but now the question is,just because they can do all those cool stuff does that mean they know how to fight as well ? Of course not,because 1/ they know what they are prepared to do, 2/their power and amazing strength comes from chi.

Chi is internal power which may be great for meditation and power and being able to take beatings,but does this mean anything in a fight? Being able to take a beating is great in a fight but so is being able to strike your opponent and take him to ground.

Technique which they have is great and same with the speed but do they have the knowledge to fight someone bigger and stronger? Perhaps,however when you live your whole life doing katas as they do,what good will it really do in a fight? Nothing at all.

When I saw these monks perform not once did I see them sparr full contact.

Shaolin Monks have and are still overated by people who see these monks and often see these guys as being tough and basically invincible when really they aren' t.

Put a muay thai fighter,pankrationist,shooto fighter,grappler,jkd etc against a shaolin monk in sparring and I would put my money down on the shaolin monks losing. If any of you think a shaolin monk would last in the ring,a Ufc,Pride,Sabaki challenge etc. then you are dreaming and need to come to reality.

Anyways that would never happen because monks probably don't believe in those types of tournaments and what they train in isn't for sparring or for street-defense.

Jimmy Rice put it perfectly when he said KungFu is an art for enlightenment,which is so true that is why the Shaolin monks do it,if it was meant for sparring and realistic street defense they wouldn't study it.

[IPON]

S.Anucha: "I prefer to fight in a ring, at least i know his mates are not going to jump me nor will he beat me to a pulp or to death when I am knocked out! Ring fighting has its differences to a so called "street" fight, street fights are ring fights without the added security of "rules", whats the difference between a hit in the ring and a hit on the street? none!!!"


Iagree with your point any type of realistic training certainly makes you better equiped that why boxers are so dangerous in real fights.

Regarding the difference I basically think you stated them, but you should add that the tempo and mentality are completely different. Also, you do not have gloves, I don't know what your experience is but there is a BIIIIG difference between getting hit with a glove and no glove. Street fights are not the same and they should not be...people have been killed boxing...but that has not happeed in the first or second round and real fights simply will not last that long...if its a real fight.

S.Anucha - This is not directed at you not is it directed at MT....but I really do not understand why people are so obsessed with the concept of there stye or sport having street or real world application......honestly if you have been in a lot of fight and know how to think there is no need to ask the question because your should know the answer. (combat) Sports are there for a reason that is not to say that during a competition fight someone is not giving 100% or trying to kick someone head off - that part is real, what is not real is a ring, rules gloves, timelimits, rest peroids, the result - at the end of competion you either win or loose...in a real situtation you will either win or loose ( and that may mean being maimed or your life ) just my thoughts


MTF - understand what you say until the last part.....Shaolin was designed for self defense that was the main reason for developing teh art was to protect themselves from the emeperors army. Granted that is not a modern concern .... just a clarification.

[grubbogoppoly]

MTF. .You have little understanding of chi(As do I in the practical sense.). Chi is not only for "taking beatings". My instructor in sacramento once hit me with an eagle claw to the chest. Thats right. THat stuff that you probably think is fake. Well, he didn't even hit me hard, it was a completely relaxed strike. BUT, it knocked me back about a half a foot. My whole chest cavity expanded and heart skipped a beat. I guarantee you those monks could translate that chi into a very powerful force.

As I understand it there are five things you can do with chi
1.making the body light(for speed of movement)
2.making the body heavy(that grounded feeling)
3.making the body hard as steel(for taking blows)
4.Making the body numb
5.Increasing mental concentration and awareness

[Zero18]

Wow!

I have never actually met a shoalin monk but may someday look forward to meeting one. I would like to see these amazing feats for myself.

[S.Anucha]

IPON



"I don't know what your experience is but there is a BIIIIG difference between getting hit with a glove and no glove. Street fights are not the same and they should not be...people have been killed boxing...but that has not happeed in the first or second round and real fights simply will not last that long...if its a real fight"


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My experience of ring fighting is 3 fights, 1 draw and 2 KO's. This BIIIIG difference isnt really that BIIIIIG of a difference,

We have all had figths in school, adolecence, bar fights etc, over women bla bla bla.... well I think we all have or else I am just one of those faces .......so then we all have had some experience of the so called "street" fight, but maybe not all of us have that nack to actually winning, a lot of guys I know cant fight for dog shit but always seem to start the fights! I admit when i was young I used to start a few myself, but hey it was all fun then.


the only real difference between using gloves and no gloves is, one, your knuckles dont get fucked up cos of pounding someones hard parts on his skull, I know that now and tend to use my elbows as for one there is more pressure per square inch from an elbow strike than with a fist strike, and anyway I havnt had a fight since leaving Australia, in 5 months in that country I had 3 fights none in the ring, over games of pool, and two they add a little padding, well 8oz gloves aint exactly perfect protection, its the bones of the fist that cuts, the gloves simply take away the bone cutting effect of fist hitting flesh but gloves still hurt and damage a hell of a lot.

The trick with street fighting is knowing if it is worth it or not,

****** is it worth it or not *******

some guys I know know nothing of martial arts and are not phased by any guy who will say he has been studying some MA for the last 20 years, man they would simply laugh and stick a bottle in his head.... no shit! These guys, crazy as they may seem are damn crazy but wouldnt really go bullying around on a night out but you always get pricks no matter where you go and fights, no matter how much we try to avoid them, seem to always happen unexpectedly. MA's just seem to teach the user self respect and knowledge, you know like, if I can do this then maybe so could he or he or fxxk who knows what this guy knows!!! understand what I am getting at here. Keeps me under control!

Most of the time I couldnt be bothered and would rather spend my time getting pissed and chatting up the local gilries! but yes there is always one, and he is always the most drunk and usually the smallest with the biggest mouth and a bunch of buddies waiting for their cue to start being pricks. This is when you think is it worth it or not, if you are with one mate and there are 10 of them then obviously you leave discretely, if you cant leave then all you do is grab one of the fuckers and keep welting the living shit out of him while the rest beat the crap out of you..... hehe, yep the joys of a street fight, well at least you know you are messing one of the **** heads up, right? well yeah until one of them pulls a switch blade on ya and you feel the flesh cutting and warm shit over yer leg or body! no pain just warm wet feeling and some boots to the head etc.... well yeah, welcome to the wonderfull world of street fighting where no amount of martial arts training can prepare you for it, 10 against 2, no chance! ok what about 5 against 2, thats cool, the best bet is to.... firstly to my disadvantage I am 178cm tall and fight at 69kg but weigh normally 71kg, I have a heart rate at rest of 53bpm... I am very fit and athletically strong... I say disadvantage because on the street its usually the biggest they go for first but in the ring being tall is an advantage, anyway, the best bet is to try and knock out the big fella, you know the one who is the foundation of the group, the guy they all look up to, yep knock him down and yer gauranteed to have the others shitting bricks! In a nutshell streetfighting is not some mysterious art form and doesnt make someone more tough, I am not at all phased by street fighters cause I know what they can do as individuals and that is jack diddly poo!!! It is just dangerous to street fight, but! there are however bare knuckle fights that use the street as a stadium, entirely different genre and there is a lot of it here in Ireland.

My advice is avoid street fighting as it is neither done by trained individuals who have respect nor is it done by athletic types but merely young fellas who are too drunk and hot to trot! Street fighting is not hard, it is nothing to be wondering over, they aint trained to fight. A trained fighter will have a huge advantage in any fair, if such a thing exists, street fight, one being he is trained and second he is more than likely to be in much better shape than the "streetfighter"......

.....why does "streetfighting" pop up so much in arguments, he is good at that but in a "streetfight" he would be beaten.... bah!


....by the way IPON, you say "real fights", I aint trying to be funny here but can you explain what a real fight is

A fight rarely lasts a minute you say, hmmm..... I been in quite a lot of fights that have lasted a lot longer than a minute I tell ya, unless they are broken up by the police then the chances are you will all stop and be on either side of the road then start again and stop start etc... and street figths are rarely ever fought one on one! when it is one on one then they are over quick if they even started!

[JimmyRice]

Well, I just would like to say that there has been a lot of good points brought up in this forum and that I have been very enlightened by all of the different facts and points of veiw expressed from so many different perspectives.

I would also like to apologize to S.Anucha if I have affended you with my comment on Muay Tai. Not in a hundred years would I think anyone could be as dedicated as Muay Tai practitioners merely to "beat peoples brains in" but I was trying to get the point across that Muay Tai and Kung Fu are DIFFERENT ARTS. I beleive that asking which art is better than another would be like asking "What is better, a boat or a car?" a boat and a car are two differrent things you cannot really compare them. I feel that if a person practices kata, they will be good at kata, if a person practices fighting in the ring, they will be good in the ring, if a person practices in the street, they will be good in the street. Things simply are what they are.

One other thing I would like to share is that I know most of the comments brought up about "street fighting" were propapbly not real issues for those people but just case scenarios (I dont know,I make no assumptions of the actions, life styles or morals of participants in this and other forums) but I feel that "street fighting" is VIOLENCE and NOT AN ART and gives martial arts a bad rep. for anyone who would "street fight" under the title that they are "martial artists" (not that I am implying that anyone is doing so, but just to clearly state a position since the matter has been brought up several times and not only in this forum but for martial arts in general) I am often asked by local wrestlers(high school wrestlers) gym patrons, martial arts enthusiasts, etc I run into in the gym and so on"could you beat some one up? what about that guy you train with, could he beat so and so?...".Last thing we need is Hilery Clinton starting a bill regulating martial arts in some rediculus way in the U.S. HaHaHa just kidding

[IPON]

....by the way IPON, you say "real fights", I aint trying to be funny here but can you explain what a real fight is

S.Anucha - I may be misunderstanding you but when I say "real" or street I am not refering to some underground bareknuckle or pit fighting match. A real fight based on personal protection is just that a fight no rules and no detrmined outcome...like you said bar fight, guy finds out you were sleeping with his girl (hey OK how was I to know), mugging, fear of your life whatever. I also use "real" as these street fights can happen anywhere rural suburban not just magically in big cities. It just seems on a lot of these threads people are obsessed getting involved in altercations that have not had any and want to know what will happen in real fights this style vs that style. If people are not getting in fights that's a good thing, I have been in too many and I do not feel like I have a badge of honor becuase of it......and I do think there is a BIIIG difference getting hit with no glove than with gloves...both hurt like hell...but no gloves a hell of a lot more (or maybe I just have a soft jaw)

We study MA and an aspect of that is fighting and defense I just think people should find the right are for themselves and spend time being a great practicioner. I will always try to resoleve any conflict without violence. If I have to fight my mentality is life/death..which is why I will avaiod when possible. (and I don't mean that I will kill someone I mean that is the situation I am in)

the bar scene 5-10 guys.....honestly I would be dead becuase if I couldn't calm it down or leave, I would fight alone and most likely loose.

Regarding the amount of time...I never said a fight would last a minute but they are quick if you are really fighting.....if 2 people are taking breaths and saying "Ok were are going to finish now" that is a match.

Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse...thanks for the comments

[S.Anucha]

"...Last thing we need is Hilery Clinton starting a bill regulating martial arts in some rediculus way in the U.S..."

Yeah and then we follow!!!!

"...mugging, fear of your life whatever..."

Only ever time I had that happen was in Paris, 5 years ago in the metro, we (yeah there was 2 of us) didnt do a thing, couldnt do a thing, he had a big knife! The guys who can take a blade from someone and take the two down (cos there were two of them) I envy! I really wouldnt know what I'd do now if that happend, I suppose if I could I'd run away.