Which arts are closest to a real fight?

[jubaji]

In france, disrespect is a vey seriuos matter, But you must really understand that be polite is really important, People get killed for that in France. Just because they said a word when they shouldn't have said that.

Of course. The French are famous for being polite!

[Garland]

But I think you guys from US have a strange way to speak.

In france, disrespect is a vey seriuos matter. I think it's the way you speak, but I am really not use to that.

You attacked me first, so I defend. I am like that, I will never attack first, but if someone wants me, be sure that he found his man and that he will regret.

But you must really understand that be polite is really important, People get killed for that in France. Just because they said a word when they shouldn't have said that.

Also, what I want you to understand, is that it is not any muay thai that will save you in the street. When I say street, I don't say a regular street when you fight and go home and that's it, or you fight and go to the hospital. this is nothing relly dangerous. I mean you enter a place, and you never come back to home. If you don't know such places, what can I do?

Even If I can go out, it will be difficult after that. Do you know what a contract is? Do you think you will survive with a contract on your head because you are a champion of Muay Thai, or because you took 5 seminars to hand a knife or a gun?

If you don't understand that, I think we are not from the same world...

Have a good day, I hope you all the good in your life.

And for the thread, which is closest to real fight, what do you mean by closest to real fight?

A real fight is not about kicking and punching, it goes beyond that.

You have a problem against someone, you give him a lowkick, he stabs you. which is the closest to a real fight?

When I was not practicing any martial art, I used my brain, if I see the man is a taekwondo champion, do you think I will enter in a fight with him? I will just call my friends, and we get him and that's all.

but obviously, I think it's a board of Competitor and not fighters. That's why we do not understand each others. It may be strange for you that I say that. but if today someone comes and is disrepectful to me and start to show me his muay thai foot leg like people used to do before in France, I will do the same; and if he is the one who kick me, no problem, life is like that. There is thousand of people who are better than me at fighting and who will give me a lesson if we fight together, but this will not stop me in anyway.

I will not post my resume nor experience on this board or anywhere, because my past is something that must be forgoten. Nobody knows my past except people who were with me at that time.

WHy will I say anything to you.

By the way, I went on a board named bullshido, and I will never go there again. A bunch of disrespectful people who think they are the best fighters on the world?

People don't speak to me without respect, it's not something that I can accept.

If you are nice, I will be nice with you. If you disrespect me, you don't know what kind of people I am.

When I say "You", it's not "Garland", it's a general statment.
Anyway, we should all respect each other.

1) strange, perhaps, but if we're going to make generalized statements about each other's cultures, our way of speaking is no more disrespectful then the snobishness and scorn we endure by many of your countrymen.

2) it is a very serious thing here, naturally...but veiled threats such as constant referencing to "contracts" and "you don't know what type of person I am or what past I have" are considered to be really crossing a line. I would think that making threats would be a faux paus in any culture...certainly more so then saying that you think another person has stated something dangerously erroneous, or was blatantly boasting in an addmittadly rude and terse fashion.

3) I did not attack you, I simply stated that I hoped that your comment about "knowing the rules of the street" was sarcasm. There are no rules to life, there are no patterns. Things happen either due to people putting things in motion, with or without foreseeable motives, or as a matter of coincidence. This is true for the street as well. A fist fight or a brawl can either remain a case of mutual combat or it can turn deadly depending on the combatants, their mentalities, the dynamic of the organic and inorganic enviornment, and other variables that may be involved (concealed or improvised weapons, or friends or strangers coming to the aide of a combatant). This is the street.
A pre-meditated knifing, a mugging, or an abduction...are not "streetfighting" they are combative situations. There is a ladder of reasonable force when dealing with altercations that happen in the real world, in a typical brawl, people go home, when it's a scenario where somebody is going to bump into you and stab you without any telegraphing of their intentions...it's different. I've SEEN people stabbed like that, and held them together while other friends have driven us to the hospital.

If somebody is going to sneak and stab...the only thing you can hope for is to see it coming, but that's not very likely. You're most likely going to get shanked.
But you know this...I mean, you said the same shit in your posts that I'm saying now, and have BEEN saying for my duration of being on this board. Maybe you didn't catch my intial statement's meaning due to the language barrier...but it appears to me that we agree more than disagree on the issue, even though you obviously mistook my original statement as agressive, and called me out...which in turn, made me respond in a disrespectful manner...because you slandered me publicly and questioned my intellegence...which I can't tolerate, and I was trying to make you regret it by exposing the fallacies in your argument, or the INITIAL hasty and agressive retorts you dealt me (you bit first).

4) I know muay thai won't save somebody in a streetfight...no one art will...most arts will pad the odds in your favor, but nothing will stack them like a weapon and/or a bunch of friends. There are things you can do to help better prepare yourself for these types of confrontation, and they involve training all ranges of combat, including use of weapons, and team tactics and mass attack scenarios, but nothing is 100%...nor is anything in this world.
And I do know places like that...in the US people carry guns. Look at the murder rates between my country and yours...America is known for having shitty places...but, I tell you friend, neither one of us are bad off, we could be in the Middle East, or the Phillippines right now...or even Brazil...all much more hard-core. We live in developed countries...we shouldn't even try to get into pissing contests about who knows scarier places. (but the US is much more dangerous than France)

5) Contracts? Hired killers? **** that. We have that in our country too, but the government monopolizes on it...by the way, the way you phrazed that sounded a bit like a threat...I hope it's something that got fucked up in translation.

6)Who is from the same world? We live in completely different countries, and lead completely different lives...we say the same things regarding fighting and combat, and yet...yeah, I agree...we are not from the same world.

7) You too. hope everything is well, you seem like less of a cocky, know-it-all asshole then when you first started posting stuff.

8) I really don't know...I didn't start this thread...and I think it's a stupid question to be honest.

9)Dur. That goes without saying.

10) ibid. (meaning, see my answer to the above question)

11) Yeah...gentlemen's rules are for duels...obviously not an unconsentual, spur of the moment fight. Oh...no...wait...you meant planning to jump somebody? Why not just call the police?...oh...I get it you're a criminal?

12) A competitor as in sport? A fighter as in what? A brawler? There is no such thing as a streetfighter, and those that tout themselves as such are delusional, and most likely can be out classed and out hearted, not to mention out conditioned, by any well rounded mma figher, not to mention a person versed in mma techniques, as well as combative techniques.
Unless you mean "fighter" to be interchangable with "criminal"...who plans out an attack and knifes or clubs somebody, or jumps somebody without notice or provokation, or justifiable reason.

13) that's a convenient out considering you asked me to state mine...remember asking what my experience was? I was just curious to see who you were, since you were asking me who I was. You make your past sound sooooo mysterious though...it must be juicy. (or you're a liar...but hey, I'm done judging you, you really shouldn't care about MY opinion anyway, right?)

14)because you asked me, you should tell me. Turn-about is fair play, if you ask me something, it should be quid pro quo, you ask me, and I'll ask you. By the way, I'm senior here (not that that means too much, but I've already established who I am and what I'm about to my peers here...so I was wondering who you were to call me out in front of my peers when 1) you don't know me. 2) I've been here MUCH longer than you have, and established myself however I have amongst the posters here, good or bad. and 3) I have no idea who you are...it's like you came into a restaraunt that I frequent with my friends and told me I didn't know the menu...it's INSULTING.

15)yeah, bullshido is full of idiots, I got myself banned from that board by speaking my mind.

16)That's reality, not everyone will respect you...but there is such thing as reciprocity..if you treat me fairly and with respect, I will treat you in turn, when you insult me...**** you...why should I show you respect?

17) I don't know you, you don't know me...it's the internet...don't get your boxers all bunched up. Relax, and don't make these veiled threats...because it's really putting me on edge.

18)it would be easier to respect each other without you jumping to conclusions, slandering and insulting me, and making generalized statements. But yeah, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones and go back to discussing the arts and fucking around on this site then continue arguing...so... we're cool.

[WildWest.]

(but the US is much more dangerous than France)

Having been to both the US and France (I am from neither) and still couldn't confidently say which is the more dangerous (like it really matters), but I know you are underestimating France. There are housing estate areas run by Algerian, Moroccan and African thugs that would make you shit your pants just looking at them. If you're not a resident you wouldn't last 2 seconds there. But then I'm sure there are places in the US that are like that as well.

But, as I said, like it really matters.

[yoshinkan]

Hi Garland,

I think we misunderstood.

By the way, I was trading in New York, buying sports clothes to sell in France.

Actually, I was born in france, but I am from west indies (LA guadeloupe). I never put my feet back in France since 5 years...

ANd I never wanted to threatening you! I will never do that, I feel we misunderstood!

I am a very peaceful person (the only problem is when people see me, they don't think that first. LOL)

My Past? Just leave that, it's not something I like to say nor in public, nor in private. as I say, people who live with me now don't really know my past. There is no point in making a story, though I may write a bio one day...

Let's say I have a new life now, with wife and children...

If you want, I can give you my sportive background, no problem for that:

1994: Starting silat (setia Hati) with Charles Joussot (special forces training: Police, Security, G.i.G.N... it's not a normal martial club)(everyday, 2 hours exept friday and sometimes, not on thursday).

At the end of 1997, I realize that I don't know to grapple (after one of us who was training in BJJ secretly challenged us and submitted 2 of us in less than 1 minute...)

Bas rutten comes to visit Charles, and we train with him (only one day, but man! The man is tough... Immediately, I adopt pancrace, and train in Bas Rutten Academy with Loic Pora and others: A Must do)

Charles tell us to go and see what are other people doing, otherwise we are stupid buffons...

So I start Taekwondo: I get kicked during two months by the guys, because I don't even know how to give a high kick (I will never forget all the dolli chagi I took in my head, chest...).

I really learn a lot with taekwondo, and I really become more flexible. Beware: DO not listen to anyone who want to make you believe that taekwondo sucks: Pure lier who is ignorant, Taekwondo guys are really dnagerous, and believe me one full force kick in your head can kill you (like in Muay thai of course)

* Still Following Charles advise, I learn english boxing: Results: A lot of night without sleeping: I get punched too many times during training, until I start to become good at boxing, but I quit after one year, because my goal is just to know how to box, and I have friends working with me (professional boxers,) and I don't want to become crazy like them... TOO Much punches in your head with those big gloves is not good for your health...

Karate: I start Shotokan too: I leave after 1 week, because it was too robotic for me (doesn't match with ju-jutsu and silat as they want to put me into forms)

1997: End silat (Charles goes to the US to train special forces, I don't follow him), Start Ju Jutsu (Traditional + Brazilian), + Pancrase

Three years in Ju Jutsu, level black belt, but I never pass any belt except yellow, and I did not go to competition.

I've never found a place like our Silat Place and I don't think I will... Very Unique. Extreme Conditioning and only people who really know what is real life. It was our team. Really unique. You must live as we lived to know that.

Note that during 1994 to 2000, I am a body guard part time, when I am available otherwise your life is almost finished (very bad for training, I tell you: You don't have time, then if you have time, you don't want to train, but sleep...); Also bouncer (Very good for training: I work only saturday,friday,sunday and all during the week, I train, eat, train, sleep, and other things too. Also, excellent to test your Ju Jutsu techniques learned during the week, because you don't have the right to kick, punch... but man I don't know, people like to bite... Be careful when you pass chokes!)

some of my Protection Jobs: Cannes Festival, Fashion stuff, Concert, national event.
Who I worked for: Michael Jordan, Lot of different Famous Models, all those man who make perfume: Thierry Mugler, channel...(All those gays. AAARGH).

A lot of other crazy people.

2000-2001: Going to holland to start in carreer in cage, but for a reason, I will never start.

2001: Move from France to another country:

2001-2002: No training (jogging and push ups only), cause I don't know anyone in that country, until...

I Meet an ex American Soldier who quit the US: We start Jeet Kune Do.
I like that philosophy: Muay Thai, Boxing, Grappling, everything...

2003-2004: A guy come from Brazil (Wow, the guy is strong): We train BJJ, I get recruted to train with national team, but at this time, I can't (other inportant things to deal with)

Note that during 1994 to 2000, I am a body guard part time, when I am available otherwise your life is almost finished (very bad for training, I tell you: You don't have time, then if you have time, you don't want to train, but sleep...); Also bouncer (Very good for training: I work only saturday,friday,sunday and all during the week, I train, eat, train, sleep, and other things too. Also, excellent to test your Ju Jutsu techniques learned during the week, because you don't have the right to kick, punch... but man I don't know, people like to bite... Be careful when you pass chokes!)

From 2002-2003: I am a sport teacher, some clubs want me to teach as well, but: here comes my mistake! As I never do any competition (I hated that: everything was prohibited), and never get any black belt or prize, the clubs change their opinions, and I can't work: They tell me that I need a belt? Marketing and business, I understand: no problem.

2003-2006: I find a Karate Shorin Ryu Seibukan Club: I like it (nothing to see with shotokan). Actually, a very strange thing happen: I was hating Katas, but after all those years of training, I like Katas now!

It gives you strength, stamina, vision. it's excellent.

2005-2006:

I finally start Aikido yoshinkan of Gozo Shioda (taught to Japanese Police). I really think I will need at least 4 years for that to really be able to apply techniques (and at teh rate of training: only 2 times a week, it makes that even more difficult. In France, my training was ever day, two time per day.)

[I started Aikido Aikikai in France with christian Tissier, and I liked that, but got to stop (to far away, and no place to park there...). I found two clubs here (I told in myself that Aikido will be the ultimate one, when I am tired of training like mad.)]

Anyway, I really like Aikido Yoshinkan, and I hope it will become a part of my reflexes, and now I changed my mentality: no problem for the KYU (grades).

Still training Ju Jutsu, but not too much, because you know how tough the training is, and I don't want to be hurt and compromise my aikido advancement.

P.S: I did try some 9-5 jobs, but i stopped that, because it affect my training, and it is something that I can't admit. Training first, then work.

But in that, there is a dilemme: Sometimes, you get hard time (no money), and you don't even have a good nutrition and your training become difficult... Sometimes I got to skip my ju jutsu training, because with my experience, I know that I can get hurt...

But My Philosophy is to do what I want only, even if I must pay the price...

Conclusion: A martial art will help you in every single aspect of your life, it's not a question of fighting, it goeswell beyond that.

last world WildWest, is true.

[yoshinkan]

I am

"but, I tell you friend, neither one of us are bad off, we could be in the Middle East, or the Phillippines right now...or even Brazil..."

Hi garland, I am now in one of those... No problem, you just need to be polite in those, and it's ok.

Politness is cool, and everybody in the world like that!

And I know that everybody in the world don't like disrespect. The degree of action will vary according to mentalities.

Ps: Man, you make me type too much, I am afraid of the lenghts of my posts...

Ok, I got to go and try to make some cash now, otherwise no training for me.

But from my experience, a good teacher doesn't care if you have money or not if he likes you. (During all those years of training, I only paid half of them, something like that.)

Thereis a difference betweem martial arts and commerce.

I myself train people, but not for money. But it may change one day. I refuse most of the people. If I train someone, it is bacause I feel him, and I know he will be able to control himself.

[47MartialMan]

Krav Maga was developed by the Israeli special forces, but it doesn't get nearly as much respect as other military arts like Muay Thai, kickboxing, San Shou, etc.

Israelis dont get much respect anyhow

[Garland]

Israelis dont get much respect anyhow

not right now at least. that shit with Lebanon was wack.
And I have a friend in the Isreali military...he did it to keep his dual citizenship...should be back sometime this year.

[47MartialMan]

not right now at least. that shit with Lebanon was wack.
And I have a friend in the Isreali military...he did it to keep his dual citizenship...should be back sometime this year.

They never had---the jews were always frown upon

[Garland]

They never had---the jews were always frown upon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CrUnxyUQYQ

oh no...now I just have to sit back and wait for people to be offended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_SO9O5JdwY

and check it...mel gibson's next movie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ae_Kskfw6c

I'm sorry, poor taste suits me well.

[EmptyneSs]

based on the results of this poll is it safe to say that muay thai is the most important martial art to know ?

i think similar polls on this site also indicated muay thai as being the top art to train in for self defense and fighting.

so we all agree? muay thai is best?

[sportmuaythai]

based on the results of this poll is it safe to say that muay thai is the most important martial art to know ?

i think similar polls on this site also indicated muay thai as being the top art to train in for self defense and fighting.

so we all agree? muay thai is best?

Not necessarily. I assume that this poll is on MT board only. If this poll is on BJJ or other martialarts, results would be different. I'm heavily biased towards MT, but I also know that it has some serious limitation. If you live in tropical or equatorial zone, you should be OK with MT. That is because you'll be wearing light loose fitting clothes. A T-shirt and shorts and tennis shoes will not limit your movements. However, if you live in colder zone where you wear thick binding clothes, it would limit or hamper your MT movements. Then judo,JJ or BJJ and wrestling may serve better. MT was developed where Thais practically wore loin cloth. So their art reflects what would be best under that situation.

[Garland]

However, if you live in colder zone where you wear thick binding clothes, it would limit or hamper your MT movements.

[Garland]

I'm suprised at how flexible those matrix actors were working in skintight pleather and vinyl...how the HELL did they do that?

[EmptyneSs]

Not necessarily. I assume that this poll is on MT board only. If this poll is on BJJ or other martialarts, results would be different. I'm heavily biased towards MT, but I also know that it has some serious limitation. If you live in tropical or equatorial zone, you should be OK with MT. That is because you'll be wearing light loose fitting clothes. A T-shirt and shorts and tennis shoes will not limit your movements. However, if you live in colder zone where you wear thick binding clothes, it would limit or hamper your MT movements. Then judo,JJ or BJJ and wrestling may serve better. MT was developed where Thais practically wore loin cloth. So their art reflects what would be best under that situation.

actually i practice mt from time to time in my street clothes and i can use it just fine. you dont need to be flexible to use mt effectively.

[sportmuaythai]

actually i practice mt from time to time in my street clothes and i can use it just fine. you dont need to be flexible to use mt effectively.

I hope that you're not merely expressing your view just for the sake of arguement. Flexibility is important in every martial art, MT included. Ask your MT trainer if you don't know. If you're wearing loose fitting sweatsuit and running shoes, then it's OK. But if you're wearing dress shirt and form fitting jeans or trousers, with jacket, then your movements will be certainly limited. And if you wear hard soled dress shoes, then how will you rise on your toes to execute proper kick? Your form fitting shirt and jacket will limit your elbow, and the padding will lessen the effectiveness of an elbow. BTW did you practice MT in your street clothes while shadow boxing or with a bag? Have you done same while sparring?