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Originally posted by sherwinc
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God I thought your last post was boring!
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Yea you need to learn to fight but always think of running as a viable option. Under th options given above running would be the smart thing to do!Originally posted by daredevilthis is the best you can do
quote:
When several guys start chasing you, you run.
When someone fires a gun you run.
When someone pulls a knife you run.
Most realistic situation.
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Dont be ashamed of running its better than a hostpital bill later.Comment
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Sorry for so many posts but I just thought of something.
Sherwinc said:
“If there's a fight between WingChun versus MuayThai with the rules of only "NO USING OF FEET" only hands or fist. WingChun will win the fight 101%. You know, the only thing that i believe in MuayThai is their powerful kick, but their hand are weak, i'll repeat, WINGCHUN FIST ARE MORE ULTIMATE POWERFUL THAN MUAYTHA”.
But Muay Thai does use kicks; they also use elbows, clinches, and knees. So by using Sherwinc rational Muay Thai must be better because if the MT guy can use his arsenal then he wins (according to Sherwinc).
But besides that MT is a sport Wingchun is not. There are combat oriented Muay Thai versions like Krabi Kabong or MB and other variations as well.
Remember when arguing which MA is best that there are many roads that lead to the same destination, If your destination is to be a good fighter (street) Many styles and systems will tech you how to fight but what sets a good fighter apart from the rest is his Intelligence, willingness to train hard, his determination, and tenacity.
Attributes for a good fighter
1) Intelligence
2) Heart and mindset (mental toughness)
3) Physical strength and conditioning (physical toughness)
4) Proper training
5) Techniques
*Remember there are and have been good fighters who never have had training these guys had the first three from above.
Many different martial arts can get you to your destination but some can get you there faster than others. In self-defense bull shit attitudes philosophies, and traditions just don’t work simplicity and directness doesComment
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I would love to see a wing chun expert fight another martial artist. There is no way anyone can convince me that your training can beat a muay thai expert. There's a reason why they are so revered. They train hard and APPLY their techniques in actual sparring matches. Do practitioners in wing chun even spar? (sticky hand doesnt count) And if they do how realistic is it? Do they just spar for fun like point sparring? Or are they actually fighting in an adrenaline pumped, nerve racking, muscle aching situation? Look, if someone sicked MTF on sherwinc we all know its gonna get ugly for sherwinc. He's just trained to apply his art.
Just to clear things up: i know i dont sound like a karate student with all the yapping about how great muay thai is. Its just that I know when something works. Also karate may have COME from the basics of kung-fu, but the thing is karate just STARTED there and then grew into its own style and then those styles grew too.
MTF ive seen your posts around and agree with a lot of what you've had to say. One thing I dont agree with is that "not all styles give you an edge." I dont think this is true because if all you've learned from a style is how to hit harder than you could before, then you're better off. Sure there are styles that help you out more but its not like everything is useless. It sounds like you've had a bad experience with karate lol. I do agree that katas suck and are useless for fighting. I never liked them. i studied shotokan for a long time and was turned off by the katas. but i dont think ALL karate is useless. Im studying kyokushin right now and i think its great. Its almost like muay thai except for the head punching and elbowing (oh yeah and clinching)
I'll find a way to fix that someday.
oh and im thinking about studying muay thai too so MTF if you know of any good gyms can you let me know? I live in vancouver tooComment
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There is also no way a mauy thai fighter will beat a WC expert.Just as no WC fighter will beat an expert boxer.Or a boxer beat a karate expert.Or a karate ka beat an expert in judo.See where this is heading.Its pointless to argue over who can win against an expert.The expert WILL win!Comment
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Thank-you , I am glad you agree with what I say about arts like muay thai especially if compared to arts that do point sparring and arts like Kung Fu with their sticky hand crap.Originally posted by Karate_is_coolI would love to see a wing chun expert fight another martial artist. There is no way anyone can convince me that your training can beat a muay thai expert. There's a reason why they are so revered. They train hard and APPLY their techniques in actual sparring matches. Do practitioners in wing chun even spar? (sticky hand doesnt count) And if they do how realistic is it? Do they just spar for fun like point sparring? Or are they actually fighting in an adrenaline pumped, nerve racking, muscle aching situation? Look, if someone sicked MTF on sherwinc we all know its gonna get ugly for sherwinc. He's just trained to apply his art.
Just to clear things up: i know i dont sound like a karate student with all the yapping about how great muay thai is. Its just that I know when something works. Also karate may have COME from the basics of kung-fu, but the thing is karate just STARTED there and then grew into its own style and then those styles grew too.
MTF ive seen your posts around and agree with a lot of what you've had to say. One thing I dont agree with is that "not all styles give you an edge." I dont think this is true because if all you've learned from a style is how to hit harder than you could before, then you're better off. Sure there are styles that help you out more but its not like everything is useless. It sounds like you've had a bad experience with karate lol. I do agree that katas suck and are useless for fighting. I never liked them. i studied shotokan for a long time and was turned off by the katas. but i dont think ALL karate is useless. Im studying kyokushin right now and i think its great. Its almost like muay thai except for the head punching and elbowing (oh yeah and clinching) I'll find a way to fix that someday.
oh and im thinking about studying muay thai too so MTF if you know of any good gyms can you let me know? I live in vancouver too
"One thing I dont agree with is that "not all styles give you an edge." I dont think this is true because if all you've learned from a style is how to hit harder than you could before, then you're better off."
I personally don't think all schools give a person an edge so here I guess we disagree.
I do agree it takes more then just being able to hit harder you also have to be able to take a hit.It takes good training from a good instructor, good body conditioning,learning proper techniques without doing katas,full contact instead of point sparring that really doesn't do much but more then anything it takes true dedication and motivation.
However how many good instructors are actually out there these days who aren't there just to get some money out of your wallet ? So many of these same instructors know how to teach techniques (as in kata) but have no clue how to apply them.Very few instructors know the bunkai to their katas.
How many instructors have actually fought in anything but point sparring? Some but many who claim to be world champions are many times champions for point sparring but don't advertize that,they just advertize the part saying they have world champion belts but are not specific to what kind of sparring they got it from.You also get alot of instructors who are champions only in their own mind.
The only real training many traditionalist arts have came from doing katas for several years and katas do crap for self-defense.
As yourself admitted, that Muay Thai fighters train hard and we apply our techniques in actual sparring matches (as you also refer to as full contact sparring)which is so true.
You seem like a very intelligent and knowledgeable person in martial arts since you are able to recognize what works and doesn't and have also recognized the effectiveness of Muay Thai against other arts like karate and wing chun. This knowledge of martial arts will get you very far provided you use this knowledge to your benefit.
I hope the best to you finding a muay thai school of your choice and to good hard training.I have respect for martial artists with true knowledge and are prepared to put it to use and are always willing to learn from both their mistakes and their good training to get even better.It's important to want to learn new skills all the time and to recognize what is useful and what isn't.
As far as me knowing schools that teach Muay Thai in our area there is my school that teaches Muay Thai,Submission Wrestling and Pankration and you can train 6x a week or even twice a day,whatever you want or are able to do.The school is in Port Moody and is called Gibson Pankration,you've probably heard of it most people have especially if they have seen UFC since it isn't too often you hear about an instructor in B.C fighting in UFC.
If you live downtown Vancouver there is also West Studios, one of the instructors used to be one of my instructors as well when here at Gibsons but then went on his own to open up his own school,his name is Chris Franco he is also very good.
Another school I can suggest is Kel Lees also in downtown Vancouver the head instructor is Simon Posener. http://www.kelleesama.com/he's a well respected instructor,I have seen him a few times.
Here's the website to Gibson's Pankration to give you a bit more information on it. http://www.gibsonpankration.com
All three of these schools teach Muay Thai and Pankration.Comment
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I don't know what WC stands for so I can't say anything about that but some of the stuff you say I totally disagree with.Originally posted by guy incognito
If you don't think a boxer can beat a karate expert then I have no idea what world you are living in. A boxer would beat the living crap out of a karate person.
I agree that a karate ka will never beat a judo expert, but a karate expert would also lose against a judo expert.
If you said there is no way a TKD expert would win against a karate expert then I would agree 100%
Its pointless to argue over who can win against an expert.The expert WILL win!
Not necessarily. An expert of one style will always win against some one of a lower level in that same style but not necessarily against a low rank of another style.
A student of Muay Thai after only a year or 2 depending on person,often will win against someone who is an EXPERT in karate,kung fu,tkd just to name a few.
I personally think a student of judo would win against an expert in karate.
I also think a boxer of 1yr. would beat a person of karate of 10yrs.or more training.
A person of Muay Thai would win against a boxer,karate,kung fu,tkd person.
The reason I think students of judo and some one of only 1yr.boxing would win against a karate expert is because in judo and boxing they do actual sparring not point sparring.Boxers fight full contact and judo experts don't hold back either they'll go all the way to throw you,flip you,and foot sweep you.
They put their techniques to use by testing it to its full advantage.Most arts that are willing to test to their full advantage are the best arts since they probably know their stuff works otherwise they wouldn't take that chance of looking bad at what they do and also they are willing to learn from any mistakes they may make will fighting in competition.
Now if you had said judo or muay thai would win over the other then I would say you're an idiot,since one is grappling and the other is stand up so there is no way of telling,but you didn't so I can't say that.
Why are you comparing traditional arts with actual fighting arts? It makes no sense.Why not compare traditional arts against other traditional arts and fighting arts against other fighting arts ?,because it is obvious the fighting arts will win all the time.
why not ask if a karate person would beat a kung fu or tkd person ? instead of a karate ka vs boxer or judo person.It is obvious to most people I think anyways that the judo and boxer would win over the karate person every time.Comment
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Anyone who thinks Wing Chun can beat a person in Muay Thai is not very bright. Wing Chun people don't even sparr,not full contact anyways.
All I can say is sherwinc has no clue what he is talking about.Comment
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I made a mistake here replying to my own messageComment
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I don't know what WC stands for.
Can someone please tell me?Comment
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Originally posted by MuayThaiFighter
WC=Wing ChunComment
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Originally posted by IPON
If WC is Wing Chun and guy incognito says that there is no way a muay thai fighter would win against WC then he is an idiot,because it is so not true.Comment
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Now that I know WC is Wing Chun I really have to laugh at you.Originally posted by guy incognito
There is no way in this world that Wing chun would win against a Muay Thai fighter,not even close.We do alot punches,kicks and elbows,but I don't know if you realize this but Muay Thai also does close up fighting that's where the clinching comes in and that's when we throw in knees.
You're right that a wing chun person won't win against a boxer though.
No offense but personally I don't think there is one art around except maybe tai chi that would not be able to beat Wing Chun.
In my opinion Karate,Tkd,Jujitsu,Judo,Submission Wrestling, Shooto, Pankration,Savate,Aikido,most styles of Kung Fu,Jkd.,Muay Thai,etc would all kick ass on Wing Chun and I'm not someone who likes arts like karate,tkd and kung fu yet i think against your style they would win.
Hell I would even bet that someone who follows Tae bo (which by the way is not meant for self-defense only for aerobic type exercise) would beat someone of Wing Chun.
However with Tai Chi,perhaps it would be equal but I think in most situations Wing Chun might win,but this is the only art that I feel could lose against Wing Chun.I don't really consider Tai Chi a martial arts to me it's more of an exercise that is good for meditation and relaxation and good for a person's heart and many other health problems.I know alot of people will disagree and say it is a martial arts that can be used for self-defense but I'm sure there are alot of people who will also agree with me.
I think the only reason people like you like Wing Chun and say shit like it will win against most styles is because you know it is the original style of martial arts Bruce Lee took. Do I have to remind you Bruce Lee was more of an actor then a martial artist,he was over hyped as far as I am concerned.He changed what martial arts is today,because of his theories and philosophies not because of his martial arts fighting.Although I believe Bruce was good I don't think he was as good as Hollywood has brain washed many people to think.
Some one with lots of Wing Chun experience but no acting career and no famous movies and this art wouldn't have become so well known and popular.In other words it isn't the art itself that became popular it is Bruce Lee as an actor who made it popular.An ordinary guy with just as much knowledge of martial arts would not have managed to make it popular.
My point is Wing Chun isn't that great just because Bruce did it.It's all about his movies,philosophies and theories and nothing more.His JKD was based on his theories and philosophies which was another reason for his popularity.
I do love Bruce Lee movies though.I still consider him to this day to have made the best martial arts movies of all time.Comment
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I have told this story before but I’ll recount it again. My very first sparring match was against a wing chun guy. Our Karate school (wado ryu Karate) went and sparred the Phoenix Wing Chun academy. I was 12 years old and a white belt and had been training for 4 months at the time.Originally posted by Karate_is_coolI would love to see a wing chun expert fight another martial artist. There is no way anyone can convince me that your training can beat a muay thai expert. There's a reason why they are so revered. They train hard and APPLY their techniques in actual sparring matches. Do practitioners in wing chun even spar? (sticky hand doesnt count) And if they do how realistic is it? Do they just spar for fun like point sparring? Or are they actually fighting in an adrenaline pumped, nerve racking, muscle aching situation? Look, if someone sicked MTF on sherwinc we all know its gonna get ugly for sherwinc. He's just trained to apply his art.
Just to clear things up: i know i dont sound like a karate student with all the yapping about how great muay thai is. Its just that I know when something works. Also karate may have COME from the basics of kung-fu, but the thing is karate just STARTED there and then grew into its own style and then those styles grew too.
MTF ive seen your posts around and agree with a lot of what you've had to say. One thing I dont agree with is that "not all styles give you an edge." I dont think this is true because if all you've learned from a style is how to hit harder than you could before, then you're better off. Sure there are styles that help you out more but its not like everything is useless. It sounds like you've had a bad experience with karate lol. I do agree that katas suck and are useless for fighting. I never liked them. i studied shotokan for a long time and was turned off by the katas. but i dont think ALL karate is useless. Im studying kyokushin right now and i think its great. Its almost like muay thai except for the head punching and elbowing (oh yeah and clinching) I'll find a way to fix that someday.
oh and im thinking about studying muay thai too so MTF if you know of any good gyms can you let me know? I live in vancouver too
We started with performing a regular class with the wing chun guys they taught us some of their drills and we did their warm ups. Then we performed our Kata and they did theirs. Their forms were much longer, more complicated and intricate than ours if this was a real tournament they would have blown us away in the forms part.
Then the sparring began. One after another our guys went out there and won. Match after match. We did not loose a single match. We brought 12 students and all 12 of us won. I had been training 4 months the guy I went up against was a couple of years older than I and he had been training for about 6 months. This was my first time so I was very nervous but he was easy to defeat.
I was talking to one of the WC guys afterward and he told me that they spent most of their training on performing forms and other drills and they rarely sparred. In my school we sparred all the time 3 days a week with our regular class and then on Saturdays we had just sparring. They did not spend much time on sparring and it really showed.
I know sparring with rules limits your ability to really perform your art but this shows that lack of sparring means that even though you may have nice pretty technique and spend lots of time on unlocking the mysteries of Kata if you don’t apply it you can’t use it. If you can’t use then why bother?
I have sparred a WC practitioner on four other occasions since and won all of them. I not saying this to brag I am saying this so people here (there are a couple of you and you know who you are) will get up off their knees and stop worshiping WC. WC as with any martial art (including all KF styles) are not the end all beat all.Comment
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