"bad" neighborhoods

[treelizard]

Yeah I totally agree that bad things happen in "good" neighborhoods. But the thing is that it is SO nice to be able to let your guard down for a sec instead of being on edge all the time. I mean like to have a low level awareness and then be able to amp it up as needed instead of having to be amped up all the time.

The only bad thing about the list was that it seemed to imply that the only crime is that which is born of poverty... and of course there are rich criminals and poor people of character.

One other thing about my neighborhood, I notice that I'm the only person who checks my mail every day, and other people will go for weeks without checking their mail. The mail doesn't even come every day, either, and they had to put up signs once telling people to inform the postmaster if they are leaving town or something. Once I was really surprised to get these letters in the mail saying my bills were late (b/c I pay my bills as soon as I get them if possible) and then three weeks later my neighbor told me they'd accidentally put my mail in his box.

[J-Luck]

Lol. Good formula Mike. Added to that would be... bars on windows... uhhh lost of the less popular gas startions instead of "shell" and such. If at 9:00 people are just coming out. If instead of a big name supermarket you have a "price right, or save alot, or some other cheesy named market. Uhhh... I think you should know if you're in the hood lol. It's not really a mistake...

[ck5]

I wouldn't know what a bad neighborhood is. Here the whole town is safe as safe can get. Still gotta be careful, because temptation leads many into crime. We have a couple bars, but the owners are decent & the cops are good men.

[Uke]

IMO the easiest way to recognize an area where you might be more likely to encounter a street altercation is street activity. If you see people hanging out on corners, alleys, parks and storefronts you know that you're in a place where minds are idle. Without any specific place to go, most people are thinking up ways to either entertain themselves or to make money.

I agree with Mike Brewer to a degree. What he described are basically ethnic urban areas. Once you factor in the liquor stores and such it has to be lower income housing because middle to upper class home owners would never allow the development of such things because it would depreciate their own property.

So to make it simple and plain:

1)People congregating in the streeets once the sun goes down.

2)Abundance of After Hour places where alcohol is served: clubs and bars

3)Development of liquor stores, pawn shops and gun stores ... all of which IMO promote crime in a given area. Liquor stores fuel tempers and diminish inhibitions. Pawn shops encourage theft and muggings. Gun stores provide tools to many people who intend to commit crimes, and many stores conduct "under the table" deals. Areas developed this way are always ethnic and always poor. Middle to Upper middle class would NEVER allow their area to be developed that way as it would dramatically effect their property values. The people who live in these areas almost NEVER own these businesses, and are mostly low income. POOR=CRIME. Its just that simple.

4)Gangs. Once you start seeing a group that is dressing similarly, especially colorwise, you're in a place where violence could escalate at any minute. It doesn't have to be any one group either. Whites, Blacks, Spanish, Asians ...they all have gangs. From bikers to crips and bloods, to Latin Kings to Triads, there are gangs everywhere in America now. Just be aware of that fact. The crazy part is that upper-class kids are starting to view gangs as something 'cool" and fun to do. Its everywhere whether some of you have seen and experienced it or not.

Bars on windows? Well, that usually implies home invasions more than street altercations. A place where I live, Jamaica Estates, is a very wealthy neighborhood with million dollar houses. There are very few street altercations compared to how many robberies there are.

[Garland]

"3)Development of liquor stores, pawn shops and gun stores ... all of which IMO promote crime in a given area. Liquor stores fuel tempers and diminish inhibitions. Pawn shops encourage theft and muggings. Gun stores provide tools to many people who intend to commit crimes, and many stores conduct "under the table" deals. Areas developed this way are always ethnic and always poor. Middle to Upper middle class would NEVER allow their area to be developed that way as it would dramatically effect their property values. The people who live in these areas almost NEVER own these businesses, and are mostly low income. POOR=CRIME. Its just that simple."

You should see downtown SLC...state st. is marred with that shit...still, it's not a very dangerous part of town at all...the dangerous areas are out in West Valley or Rose Park...just FYI.

[Uke]

Garland

I hear ya, Garland.

America is not really that poor. You have to travel outside of America to really get a glimpse of what truly horrible neighborhoods are. Go to some places in Mexico, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Brazil, and certain parts of Croatia or Turkey. When there is poverty at that level, crime will be so high that you have to become desensitized to it to a certain degree just to function. Those are the real bad neighborhoods. Places where you'll never have to ask how to tell if its a bad place to be. What is so funny about those foreign places is that tourists say how beautiful these places are because they are segregated from how life in these places really is. Tourist commissions make sure tourists ONLY see the beauty, not the reality.

In America, the only differences between the bad places and the so-called safe places are few.

The first is the willingness of the neighbors to call the police. If you live in an urban area, a lot can happen and no one might ever make that call. In the suburbs, where people actually own their property, they will call because they can't afford to have their own value drop. Poor people tend to keep their noses out of "other people's" business, until that business is on their doorstep. In poor places, being a "snitch" can and will get you killed. This is widely known and understood. But this "code" is the reason why police can't get the necessary leads to stopping and preventing crimes in these areas.

Second is the regularity in which the police patrol. In urban areas which are much larger than suburban areas, it may take cops hours just to check one area of a city. While in the suburbs, police cars can drive around one neighborhood and cover each corner in a third of the time. The larger the police presence, the less crime will be. Proof of this can be seen during riots. Those who riot only riot in their own neck of the woods. Why? Because they know that as soon as they step foot into suburbia, the police would respond in force. The truth is that cops in urban areas are there to oversee and patrol. While cops in the suburbs are there to serve and protect.

Third and lastly, gentrification. When people lose their housing in favor of hotels, malls and expensive condos, they are grouped together in areas where the can afford housing. When you herd poor people into a small radius where criminals run unchecked unless they venture out of that radius, crime will skyrocket. When a business that employs the majority of a communities citizens gets bought out by a big corporation, the citizens usually don't get jobs in that corporation. People lose their jobs, which leads to them losing their homes. Houses are demolished to make room for businesses that would make money in "that" kind of neighborhood. Affordable housing projects are built. Liquor stores and pawn shops are built. Drugs are flooded in. More cops are hired.

When you see all those factors together, you know that you're in a bad part of town simply because no one likes to be poor, and most people will do anything not to be.

Also, it should be noted that most "bad" neighborhoods are on the outskirts of "good" neighborhoods. So its nothing for a criminal to walk a few blocks over and get busy.

[J-Luck]

IMO the easiest way to recognize an area where you might be more likely to encounter a street altercation is street activity. If you see people hanging out on corners, alleys, parks and storefronts you know that you're in a place where minds are idle. Without any specific place to go, most people are thinking up ways to either entertain themselves or to make money.

I agree with Mike Brewer to a degree. What he described are basically ethnic urban areas. Once you factor in the liquor stores and such it has to be lower income housing because middle to upper class home owners would never allow the development of such things because it would depreciate their own property.

So to make it simple and plain:

1)People congregating in the streeets once the sun goes down.

2)Abundance of After Hour places where alcohol is served: clubs and bars

3)Development of liquor stores, pawn shops and gun stores ... all of which IMO promote crime in a given area. Liquor stores fuel tempers and diminish inhibitions. Pawn shops encourage theft and muggings. Gun stores provide tools to many people who intend to commit crimes, and many stores conduct "under the table" deals. Areas developed this way are always ethnic and always poor. Middle to Upper middle class would NEVER allow their area to be developed that way as it would dramatically effect their property values. The people who live in these areas almost NEVER own these businesses, and are mostly low income. POOR=CRIME. Its just that simple.

4)Gangs. Once you start seeing a group that is dressing similarly, especially colorwise, you're in a place where violence could escalate at any minute. It doesn't have to be any one group either. Whites, Blacks, Spanish, Asians ...they all have gangs. From bikers to crips and bloods, to Latin Kings to Triads, there are gangs everywhere in America now. Just be aware of that fact. The crazy part is that upper-class kids are starting to view gangs as something 'cool" and fun to do. Its everywhere whether some of you have seen and experienced it or not.

Bars on windows? Well, that usually implies home invasions more than street altercations. A place where I live, Jamaica Estates, is a very wealthy neighborhood with million dollar houses. There are very few street altercations compared to how many robberies there are.

No, it just indicates that there ARE home invasions. It has no indicator on street altercations. Any hood I've ever been in, that includes mine, has had bars on the windows of stores, and even apartments sometimes.

[J-Luck]

There are neighborhoods in the US that are as bad as any... South Central LA(among other areas of LA), The Bronx, Queens, parts of DC.... I mean you're right, we aren't as poor, but when you walk into areas of even Chicago, you feel like you've just walked into a warzone(which is the feel of the other countries). Why do you think you know all this if you're from a rich neighborhood anyway?

[Uke]

J-Luck

There is no city in the United States that is as crime ridden as some third world countries and cities. From Brazil to Manilla, the level of poverty is exponentially worse. And what compounds that is most police in those countries are crooked and can be bought easily. Many people in places like Pakistan and Turkey don't care about their own lives, so committing crimes is nothing to them because they feel like they have nothing to lose.

I've lived and been all over NYC and that includes the Bronx, Queens, Manhattan and Brooklyn. I've been to many other cities around America and none of them compare to the poverty in foreign cities I've seen. In America, you might have gangs and some criminals. In foreign countries children are so poor that they walk the streets naked. They beg constantly. Some of them are armed. Crime is a way of life for most of them. Jamaica may be a beautiful island, but once you wander away from tourist havens, you'll see everything I just described. And its not just in Jamaica. Its all over the world.

We as Americans live in something like "The Matrix" .... a made up reality. We live in our own microcosm where the worst case scenarios involve welfare and social service assistance, while in foreign countries most people don't even have rights. Most don't have phones to call the police. Extortion is commonplace, and so are drugs.

I said it before and I'll say it again: POOR=CRIME

And their poor is much more abundant than our poor. Their poor has hit rock bottom, to a point where 11 year old girls are prostituting themselves in the streets. Young kids have guns and young teens are the ones doing the muggings. Cabrini Green and Compton have nothing on these places. East New York and Spanish Harlem have nothing on these places. Not even close.

I'm not saying that life isn't rough in inner city projects. We both know that isn't true. I'm simply saying that as poor and as hopeless as it may sometime seem in America's poor areas, the poor here are at least protected by laws a lot more than poor people abroad.

[J-Luck]

There is no city in the United States that is as crime ridden as some third world countries and cities. From Brazil to Manilla, the level of poverty is exponentially worse. And what compounds that is most police in those countries are crooked and can be bought easily. Many people in places like Pakistan and Turkey don't care about their own lives, so committing crimes is nothing to them because they feel like they have nothing to lose.

I've lived and been all over NYC and that includes the Bronx, Queens, Manhattan and Brooklyn. I've been to many other cities around America and none of them compare to the poverty in foreign cities I've seen. In America, you might have gangs and some criminals. In foreign countries children are so poor that they walk the streets naked. They beg constantly. Some of them are armed. Crime is a way of life for most of them. Jamaica may be a beautiful island, but once you wander away from tourist havens, you'll see everything I just described. And its not just in Jamaica. Its all over the world.

We as Americans live in something like "The Matrix" .... a made up reality. We live in our own microcosm where the worst case scenarios involve welfare and social service assistance, while in foreign countries most people don't even have rights. Most don't have phones to call the police. Extortion is commonplace, and so are drugs.

I said it before and I'll say it again: POOR=CRIME

And their poor is much more abundant than our poor. Their poor has hit rock bottom, to a point where 11 year old girls are prostituting themselves in the streets. Young kids have guns and young teens are the ones doing the muggings. Cabrini Green and Compton have nothing on these places. East New York and Spanish Harlem have nothing on these places. Not even close.

I'm not saying that life isn't rough in inner city projects. We both know that isn't true. I'm simply saying that as poor and as hopeless as it may sometime seem in America's poor areas, the poor here are at least protected by laws a lot more than poor people abroad.

Look, they are bad. And some areas are worse than our areas, no doubt, that's why they're third world countries. But prostituting 11 year old girls... US hoods... lil kids armed... US hoods... you must not have lived in the areas I'm talking about. But, yes, you are right, third world countries are worse off than even the worse areas in the US(becuase of laws and such).

[Uke]

J-Luck

I have to say, J-Luck, that I have never seen an 11 year old girl out on a corner selling herself. In places like Thailand and Mexico, that is commonplace. I know kids here have weapons, but in third world countries they don't even conceal them. I've never seen anyone, let alone an armed little kid brandishing a pistol in broad daylight unless they're about to use it.

Anyone here want to get a good look at how poverty can create all types of crime, watch the movie "City of God" which takes place in Brazily. At the end you get to see some of the real people that the characters were portraying. Poverty like that exists all over. Just not in tourist areas.

[ck5]

My town is so safe that the hottest movie star babe could walk down the street in the middle of the night stark naked with a $100 tapes to her butt, and she'd get to the other end of town, untouched.

Jane Fonda, OTOH, if she so much as gets gas here, there's a few 'Nam vets that still have a few guns they got from RVN and they'd like to see how well those RPGs work....

[J-Luck]

I have to say, J-Luck, that I have never seen an 11 year old girl out on a corner selling herself. In places like Thailand and Mexico, that is commonplace. I know kids here have weapons, but in third world countries they don't even conceal them. I've never seen anyone, let alone an armed little kid brandishing a pistol in broad daylight unless they're about to use it.

Anyone here want to get a good look at how poverty can create all types of crime, watch the movie "City of God" which takes place in Brazily. At the end you get to see some of the real people that the characters were portraying. Poverty like that exists all over. Just not in tourist areas.

OBVIOUSLY YOU haven't seen it. It's on the NYPD's records and LAPD's. Underage prostitiution is a problem. It's not common place in the US but it defintily happens. I remember my friend's dad said when working in (I forget which part) LA he said they would pick up girls on sweeps and they were always surprised to see their real age. Lots of immigrants and stuff. Probably from the countries you're talking about.

[SamuraiGuy]

lol bad neighbourhoods...

as I sit here... typing on my computer... in my nice house, in my nice neighbourhood, talking to my friend on the computer, who has a nice house in another nice neighbourhood, I read that bars on windows mean a bad neighbourhood...

lmao... theres bars on all the convenience store windows and shit... doesnt mean its a bad neighbourhood, just means theres a few douchebags who like to steal smokes cause their cool 14 year olds that smoke cause their badass...

Bars in the windows.. thats gonna happen whether you see the store from your new SUV, or the stolen bike your riding away on...

[Uke]

OBVIOUSLY YOU haven't seen it. It's on the NYPD's records and LAPD's. Underage prostitiution is a problem. It's not common place in the US but it defintily happens. I remember my friend's dad said when working in (I forget which part) LA he said they would pick up girls on sweeps and they were always surprised to see their real age. Lots of immigrants and stuff. Probably from the countries you're talking about.

I never stated that underage prostitution didn't exist here. I said that I've never seen an 11 year old walking the streets. Like you said, its illegal immigrants that usually fall into that category.

I agree with Samurai about the bars on the window issue. As I said before, its more about invasions than it is about violence in the streets. I mean, a couple of crack addicts can loot an entire neighborhood over the course of a year, but he doesn't make the entire community "bad".