The Brutality of it...

[Garland]

^^^^dittos^^^^

dildos?

dildo baggings?

dildo T. baggins?

never met him...sorry.

[47MartialMan]

I have to completely agree with Mike.
I can see why the author of this thread feels that way. It demonstrates grand personal charecter and human disposition. Because humans are bound by emotions, aggression is one that surfaces. We want to see conflict by our very nature to keep aggression. However, as a evolved intelligent species, we learn how to suppress aggression from total dominace (Well most of us anyway) This type of brutality within the martial arts was considered by many Christians and other religions that seek peace among all people. In other words, I came across Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus, whom thought the same way in terms of martial art practice. The end debate-self-preservation.

[Mishael]

I never actually trained in street combatives, but

I started studying the martial arts so I wouldn't be afraid of bullies. At seventeen I was mugged while in basic training in the Army. By this time, I had three years of karate and had almost finished my basic training. A friend and I were going to the phone center to call home. Three men were approaching us from the opposite side of a field which we had to cross. I told my friend that we were going to get mugged. He said nobody mugs him just before he got dropped by a punch. I threw a side kick into one and shot my finger out and into the eye of another. Then, pain rained down on me. I went to the ground a couple of times receiving boots to the head. I fought my way to the phone center and the muggers ran off. I forgot about this incident until tonight. I have been in alot of bar fights and street fights in my 54 years. Nobody wins. But, you do what you have to do to protect yourself and your loved ones. I am about to start practicing krav maga and F.I.G.H.T. I am too old and fat for high kicks and long fights.

[Blue Wave Gym]

just do em'

whether in the ring or on the street just do em' don't think respond with astonding violence. once you've experienced true evil commited upon your person you'll never have a problem commiting any violent act to defend yourself. In my mind if someone puts their hands on me then it's game over time although in this fruity pants society we live in we can't even defend ourselves against terrorists
btw just look a prison inmates they have to commit horrific violence on a regular basis to survive and they do it readily.
It's just too bad there are so many evil doers in the world because without them we'd all have more fun in life. Oh well that's the way the cookie crumbles (as Duke roufus said as rick was being carried out on a stretcher after a fight with kitsangrate)

[Shoot]

Brutal but relavent

There's no doubt about it that combatives are brutal. They are truly "martial" arts/science techniques. MMA is a sport. It is a combat sport that closely resembles one on one empty hand combat, but is not the same. I would divide physical confrontation into three categories: self defense, brawling, and combat. They overlap and share similar techniques and mechanics but have distinct characteristics. MMA most closely resembles a one on one brawl which is the most unlikely hand to hand scenario. I've trained in MMA extensively and it has helped me in combatives training. However, I feel that self defense and combatives are more relevant to my daily life. I'm not planning on "stepping outside" or agreeing to an empty hand duel any time soon. Combatives is a whole different mind set. Many MMA techniques and strategies would get you killed in a life or death struggle. For example, punching with your knuckles has a high likelihood of breaking your hand. That can result in loss of life in combat. That's why all the respectable h2h experts never advocate punching.

[traveller]

^^^^dittos^^^^

[thesnake]

kudos i agree with alsmost all u said

[HtTKar]

It's funny, isnt it?
People get wierded out by the idea of hurting another. Its all in how you were raised. The first years of your life you are told everyday to be nice. You are punished for hurting others. Then one day someone is trying to teach you HOW to hurt others. If you were able to learn how to be nice, you are probably just as easily able to learn how to hurt others.

I dont think that fighting is brutal, it is the way of life. Luckily we live in a society that dissaproves of hurting others. We are, for the most part, safe. Still, knowing how to protect yourself and your family allows you to be a little more independent. You can teach your children these arts. One day when they're attacked they can defend themselves instead of having to wait for the police to arrive...late as always.

We live in the information age, and are very lucky to be able to learn all these arts. I dont think any other generation anywhere has had this opportunity. Its not going to last forever (opportunity never does), so learn everything you can. We dont have to learn how to fight, no more than some people have to learn how to make walking sticks, how to can, or how to preserve seeds. Its just not necessary "right now". But that doesnt mean they wont be necessary skillsets in the future. That being said. If you have the time and the opportunity to learn something useful...something you can pass on to your children, learn all you can.

Anyone who says that learning martial arts is a waste of time, forgets how much time people of our generations are really wasting.

[bigred389]

You could apply that to a lot of things in life. Think about learning in general. Special ed kids will be special ed kids, no matter how much special attention they get.

Sorry if that offends anyone. Point is, we're not all created equal, and some are just naturally better or worse at certain things. That said, try to be the best you can be, and don't accept your "limitations"...too often, for many of us, they're all in your head. My $0.02.

[Sagacious Lu]

So you can't choose whether to be whiny or whether to push yourself harder?

I don't think this is just an academic question, it sort of lies at the heart of the matter. If I saw someone being whiny and decided that was just their personality and they couldn't choose to change, I would probably treat them differently than if I thought otherwise.

Can someone decide for themselves to adopt a better attitude? Of course. I'm thinking of one guy who gave it a shot that was excellent at soccer and track & field; he wasn't at all lazy or unathletic. The first time he got cross-faced he took it as a personal insult and got mad at his training partner. It was actually pretty funny, I mean, what did he think the sport was all about when he signed up? Our coach told him that it was a perfectly legal technique, and then spoke with him privately. He quit a couple days later. Based on his success in other sports there was no reason in the world that he couldn't be a successful wrestler except that he could not or would not accept the level of contact. Sure something could happen to change his mind, but no one could change it for him. He didn't want to though, and no, he couldn't just decide to MAKE himself want to. Then again why should he? I'm sure his experience with soccer was just as valuable to him as my experience with wrestling was to me. It's not like there was any particular reason why he needed to succeed at that particular sport; it just wasn't for him. In cases like that I think a coach or teacher is better off not wasting their time on the person because they could be working with someone that does want to learn. Why try to force a round peg into a square hole?

[treelizard]

So you can't choose whether to be whiny or whether to push yourself harder?

I don't think this is just an academic question, it sort of lies at the heart of the matter. If I saw someone being whiny and decided that was just their personality and they couldn't choose to change, I would probably treat them differently than if I thought otherwise.

[Sagacious Lu]

I just think that the desire to learn or not to learn is a CHOICE--so it's not whether or not someone is "cut out for it" but whether they CHOOSE to learn. I'd be interested in how the wrestlers didn't "get it"--was it that they knew where they needed to improve and just didn't work on it?

The people I'm thinking of were just clumbsy with techniques in general and didn't improve much because they tended to start whining when it was time to push themselves harder. From top to bottom they just didn't fit with the rest of the team. I see what you're saying, but some people naturally excel at certain things and not others. A lot of that may be based on their personality, but then again you can't just CHOOSE to change your personality. I think how much of it is a choice and how much of it is just innate to who they are (whether by nature or nurture) is a debate for psychologists, to be honest I don't think it's a simple either/or. I think anyone who is determined to learn will. I have known some people who's personalities made it impossible for them to get far with MA because they couldn't accept being taken down, or the fact that from time to time they might get hit, or because they just couldn't bring themselfves to throw a real punch at their training partners. Maybe if they had an extreme experience (like surviving or witnessing a brutal assault) they would change dramtically. The thing is until that change happens whether they could theoretically choose to be different is just an academic question.

[treelizard]

I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit here You're enthusiasm for your training is too obvious for me to buy into this one:P

Heh, fair enough. But I feel like if I were a "real" fighter I wouldn't feel this amazing sense of relief when I hang out with people who want to sit in the tactical seats... Instead I'd be keeping an eye on 'em to make sure they were really doing their job.

The thing is that you're still talking about people who were determined to learn even if it didn't come easily, that makes all the difference. I don't know, it's not like I have much experience as a coach or teacher; I've been asked to help junior students at times but only under close supervision. The thing is I remember guys that went out for wrestling year after year that were never successful because try as they might they just didn't get it. I wouldn't ever assume that an individual couldn't learn if they applied themself, but it seems to me that there are people that just aren't cut out for it.

I just think that the desire to learn or not to learn is a CHOICE--so it's not whether or not someone is "cut out for it" but whether they CHOOSE to learn. I'd be interested in how the wrestlers didn't "get it"--was it that they knew where they needed to improve and just didn't work on it?

[Sagacious Lu]

lol at the appliances attacking people.

Remember the movie Maximum Overdrive? It was one of those 80's horror movies about appliances coming to life and attacking people.

That movie was awesome It even had music by AC/DC The short story by Stephen King was disappointing though

[Sagacious Lu]

Interesting. I guess I consider myself as one of those people who is "just not a fighter and never will be."

I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit here You're enthusiasm for your training is too obvious for me to buy into this one

As for people who panic and quit after getting hit in class, well I probably would have been one of those people too, but luckily I had AMAZING teachers that have gone far above and beyond the call of duty in trying to tailor their classes to individual students' personality styles, strengths and weaknesses, etc. and teach in a way that is digestible and that somebody could handle. I read in a book that discussed stress (distress vs. eustress or whatever good stress is called) was when the circumstances you are dealing with are beyond your capability of handling them--so it's up to the instructor to make sure you are being challenged, but not enough that you'll quit. And then upping the level of challenge.

I saw a very dear friend of mine go through a complete transformation during a WSD class. She started out by saying, "I don't want to hurt anyone!! I wanna go home!!" and I tried to assure her by telling her that the hardest part was just showing up. She was an animal by the end of the class. I guarantee that she would have walked out had she been hit as hard in the beginning of class as she was by the end.

I think everyone is capable of learning basic self-defense that will help them have a reasonable chance of surviving what they will likely encounter in a normal lifetime.

I think a person is also a zillion times more likely to keep their composure if they have thought about similar situations to ones they will encounter, and can therefore have a base of knowledge to reason from instead of responding emotionally.

I also think that being repeatedly forced to function while being attacked can be done in different "levels"--maybe don't go full force on the beginners.

In addition, I think other things also help with keeping composure... I'm a big fan of prayer, meditation, ceremony, and other things that will help someone come back to center when under stress. Breathing is nice.

My apologies if everything I've written is fairly obvious.

The thing is that you're still talking about people who were determined to learn even if it didn't come easily, that makes all the difference. I don't know, it's not like I have much experience as a coach or teacher; I've been asked to help junior students at times but only under close supervision. The thing is I remember guys that went out for wrestling year after year that were never successful because try as they might they just didn't get it. I wouldn't ever assume that an individual couldn't learn if they applied themself, but it seems to me that there are people that just aren't cut out for it.