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**SamuraiGuy** · 08-10-2006, 12:18 PM

I just think its funny how those british guys went from unarmed self defense with agains the knife. Which was pretty realistic I would imagine, running at the guy stabbing, and they got murdered in every situation.

Then when the guy has the stick, it looks more like a boxing match, mma fight, or even full contact stick fight. They start to try to "duel" with the guy, instead of running in, taking one shot with the stick, and gutting the guy.

Just an interesting observation.

**Garland** · 08-10-2006, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by SamuraiGuy View Post

I just think its funny how those british guys went from unarmed self defense with agains the knife. Which was pretty realistic I would imagine, running at the guy stabbing, and they got murdered in every situation.

Then when the guy has the stick, it looks more like a boxing match, mma fight, or even full contact stick fight. They start to try to "duel" with the guy, instead of running in, taking one shot with the stick, and gutting the guy.

Just an interesting observation.

Well...the guys are padded up, and a good crack with the stick may or may not (who knows...) cause enough damage to the attackers arm/hand to make them drop the knife, or crack their skull.

But, yeah...any weapon on weapon thing is going to look like a duel, and probably isn't that realistic.

**SamuraiGuy** · 08-10-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Garland View Post

Well...the guys are padded up, and a good crack with the stick may or may not (who knows...) cause enough damage to the attackers arm/hand to make them drop the knife, or crack their skull.

But, yeah...any weapon on weapon thing is going to look like a duel, and probably isn't that realistic.

Well i'm just saying, they charge in and murder you so effectively with a knife when you have a fist as a weapon, and they can take a punch ,or whatever to close the distance and get to you, but once the other guy has a stick, they dont? they try to duel the guy with the longer weapon, , but close range = knife all the time.

Just doesnt make sense to me, I think its poor training, because while they would respect the stick, I dont know, seems like the rush forward stab stab stab would work best even against a stick.

**Garland** · 08-10-2006, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by SamuraiGuy View Post

Well i'm just saying, they charge in and murder you so effectively with a knife when you have a fist as a weapon, and they can take a punch ,or whatever to close the distance and get to you, but once the other guy has a stick, they dont? they try to duel the guy with the longer weapon, , but close range = knife all the time.

Just doesnt make sense to me, I think its poor training, because while they would respect the stick, I dont know, seems like the rush forward stab stab stab would work best even against a stick.

A stick is longer, and at a longer range (i.e. the one you'd need to even DEPLOY a stick/baton, quick stick or asp) it'll work better...obviouslly shorter weapons are better suited to shorter ranges.

**bigred389** · 08-10-2006, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by SamuraiGuy View Post

Just doesnt make sense to me, I think its poor training, because while they would respect the stick, I dont know, seems like the rush forward stab stab stab would work best even against a stick.

A stick can still do some nasty things to your body.
You can try to just cause enough muscle/tendon damage that he can no longer hold his weapon properly. Technically speaking, the best disarm(if it works) is to defang the snake by smacking the weapon arm. A stick increases the odds in your favor over empty hand.

Also, if you can pass the knife and slam a stick thrust into the guy's eye, temple, or throat, that'll tone down his aggression quite a bit for some time. Not even close to impossible when you've got a weapon about three or four times as long.

But most importantly, the guy with the stick should be trying to keep it at his range, which means he better have good footwork and enough room to move. In extreme close quarters, a knife in hammer grip is likely going to do nasty things to a person trying to fight with a stick.

**jeff5** · 08-11-2006, 08:45 AM

The ones where they're throwing kicks against knives just make me want to shudder. As did that one with the Karate guy in red.

I liked the dog brothers one quite a bit.

**jeff5** · 08-11-2006, 08:46 AM

If you have a longer range weapon against a knife, your only advantage IS that range. You have to keep the guy at range and break his hand. If he gets within your stick (or whatever) weapon range, your at a massive disadvantage, and in most cases your dead.

**Garland** · 08-11-2006, 11:11 AM

Kind of what I'd imagine the damage kicking at a good sharp knife would produce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOQzHvgn39E

...maybe not COMPLETE avulsion or amputation of the calf muscle...but close to it...as if punctures and slashes aren't bad enough, the force of a good kick met with a knife...ouchie.

**cliveg** · 08-12-2006, 06:01 PM

G'day guys, Clive Girdham is the name. I'm the one responsible for all those "Realistic Knife training" clips on YouTube. Thanks for the kind comments Garland, I'm glad you all enjoyed them. We like to keep it as real as possible and occaisionally we have injuries but nothing too bad. Just a clarification, we are actually an Australian group with a few Brits involved based in Sydney. We draw inspiration from Richard Dimitiris Senshido, Dog Brothers and Jim Grover
all the best
Clive

**Garland** · 08-12-2006, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by cliveg View Post

G'day guys, Clive Girdham is the name. I'm the one responsible for all those "Realistic Knife training" clips on YouTube. Thanks for the kind comments Garland, I'm glad you all enjoyed them. We like to keep it as real as possible and occaisionally we have injuries but nothing too bad. Just a clarification, we are actually an Australian group with a few Brits involved based in Sydney. We draw inspiration from Richard Dimitiris Senshido, Dog Brothers and Jim Grover
all the best
Clive

Ya man! Good work with all of that! I'd love to see more clips, I like your approach to the issue!

**SamuraiGuy** · 08-13-2006, 06:06 PM

I dont know seems to me run in and stab stab stab works.

If its so effective against an unarmed opponent... its effectiveness must still be great against someone armed with a stick.

Think about it, its a longer range, and in most cases, more damaging weapon.

However, if taking a punch to get to the stabby range, is okay, taking a shot from a stick would be too.

So what if he knows his Kali angles etc, use your forearm as your "stick" and make a roofblock, sure it hurts your forearm, but you ramming the knife into his gut, and his weapon being completely out of range (no distance to strike as your inside his arms) is effectively useless.

Good footwork, no one can back up, move in triangles, etc, and keep me at bay if I'm just willing to rush at them and take a shot, you move off to an angle ,and hit me, so what I'll turn to that angle and run forward, I'll catch you after 1 or 2, than your done.

I'm just saying its funny hwo you see the thug techniques work in unarmed self defense.. but once another weapon is introduced.. oh shit... time to duel...

When faced with a stick, do you thin kthe average knifer is going to go, okay ... remember your angles of attack, triangle footwork, defang the snake.

Or will it be... CHARGE STABBITY RIP STAB STAB!...

In my estimation the latter.

**Garland** · 08-13-2006, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by SamuraiGuy View Post

I dont know seems to me run in and stab stab stab works.

If its so effective against an unarmed opponent... its effectiveness must still be great against someone armed with a stick.

Think about it, its a longer range, and in most cases, more damaging weapon.

However, if taking a punch to get to the stabby range, is okay, taking a shot from a stick would be too.

So what if he knows his Kali angles etc, use your forearm as your "stick" and make a roofblock, sure it hurts your forearm, but you ramming the knife into his gut, and his weapon being completely out of range (no distance to strike as your inside his arms) is effectively useless.

Good footwork, no one can back up, move in triangles, etc, and keep me at bay if I'm just willing to rush at them and take a shot, you move off to an angle ,and hit me, so what I'll turn to that angle and run forward, I'll catch you after 1 or 2, than your done.

I'm just saying its funny hwo you see the thug techniques work in unarmed self defense.. but once another weapon is introduced.. oh shit... time to duel...

When faced with a stick, do you thin kthe average knifer is going to go, okay ... remember your angles of attack, triangle footwork, defang the snake.

Or will it be... CHARGE STABBITY RIP STAB STAB!...

In my estimation the latter.

Yeah...but the average person using the stick will know enough to hit the person to keep them away...common sense.

And don't underestimate the blow from a stick to an unguarded head, or hand. Notice why the dogbrothers wear hand and head protection? Broken bones and shattered and torn joints, ligaments, tendons...ouch.

**bigred389** · 08-13-2006, 10:53 PM

Yeah...the damage a stick can apply compared to that of our average fist doesn't really compare in certain instances.

And even an "average" stick fighter, could resort to something like fencing...keep your distance by retreating while whacking away at the hand. Flesh and bone can only take so much, and sticks really mess up the small bones of the hand.

Even better if you've got one of those nifty heavy police nightsticks. A buddy who's becoming a LEO let me play around with his once. Those things can eat a knife and will do some MASSIVE damage if they connect. They're far more dense than a regular kali stick.

In that context, you should be thinking along the lines of aluminum baseball stick(or equally long length of PVC pipe, etc.) vs knife.
If I was the knife guy, I would not want to eat a PVC pipe across the head.