Gunman Kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[Tant01]

The billion dollar question...

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, Garland, so don't take this personal. I'm going to put on my hard-nosed, cynic hat and say:

I don't understand what you are trying to say?

He wants you to send MONEY!!!


LOL

[Tom Yum]

I got lost after the second sentence and started thinking about a turkey sandwhich...jk.

Hear you loud and clear, G. I'll get my $0.15 and send it right away!

[Garland]

I got lost after the second sentence and started thinking about a turkey sandwhich...

weird...I was thinking eating a turkey sandwich when I wrote that.

[Garland]

I wonder if there'll be another incident today. Check the date...

oh...and by the way, smoke up Dick.

[Britt]

Looking at the big picture, he was a bullied individual who may not have had any real outlets for his tension and just bottled it up. He probably fed himself the wrong kinds of thinking and the rampage was his final release?

I can honestly say is that as his classmate, if we attended school, whether in highschool or college, I would have stepped in, tried to befriend him, take him out for coffee or what not after hearing some of the exchanges that may have taken place and tried to help the guy.

A few of his classmates say they tried, and he shut them out cold. He usually refused to sit with anyone during lunch when they asked, and when he did refused to speak. A lot of psych profilers think the "bullied" aspect of school shootings is played up in the media, and that other motives are often at work. There was an excellent article in Slate about the FBI psychological profile of the Columbine killers:

The Depressive and the Psychopath (click for link)

[treelizard]

First of all their taking these views on statistics from a book called "Women, Work and Family in America" you dont think thats going to be skewed.

I bet a book called "women dont do shit" might have some different perspectives on the same statistics..

It's census stats.

Anyway....

"On average, women ages 18-65 spend about 30 hours per week in paid employment and 22 hours doing housework"

Taken from her source.... funny, I worked 25 hours this week... and I'm a full time university student, during exams, training MA in a city over an hour away, 3 times a week, seeing my girlfriend, moving out of my room (housework?) and i still have time to come on here.

That's nice. I normally work 40 at my full-time job and 4 hours for lunch breaks, around 10 at my part-time job, plus I go to the school for 7 hours and 1 hour to get there and back, and I train martial arts a half hour away. Oh and I'm in school.

Thats 5 hours less work than women (on average) in a work week, and I'm doing alot more.

30 hours isnt even a full work week, 40 is. And while women may be doing 52 hours of work between houes and employment, men are doing 10 hours of housework plus there jobs. If there only working 30 hours a week you americans need to get off your slacking asses. It doesnt say how many hours on average they work a week, though I'll guess its 40 at least, or over 40. (The average person works a 9-5 which is 40, than you have constructio nworkers, farmers, etc...) These are far more common than the rich ass guy who works 20 hours a week.

I'd say being a mom is a full work week even without 30 hours on top of it. Anyway, I hope you never have children and I hope your girlfriend dumps you so she won't have to hear you tell her to get off her slacking ass.

I think its funny how they dont have the statistics for men there, about the work week. Carefully left that one out though, guess thats what you get when you have sources with an agenda.

Look it up.

I dont really see how this is pertinent. First of all you said historically, therefore it doesnt neccessarily reflect what happens today. Second of all I think modern day were a little more civilized then that. I doubt if you took a sample of 10 random north american males and left them alone in a house for a month they'd start to torture each other. Actually I bet they'd be fine with it.

And they probably would get a little rougher, probably would be more violence, whos to say this is wrong?

Athens and Sparta did things very different, neither was better. They still ran a perfectly fine civilization while being brutal and trying to get rid of the "softness".

On another note, explain homosexuals to me? How the hell do they ever raise a kid without a women around, how do they exist without the constant influence (nagging) of women?

Damn..... looks bleak for them.

Okay, since you obviously don't think women are necessary for society, again I hope your girlfriend dumps you and finds someone who respects her instead.

Have a nice day.

[treelizard]

I tried to pos rep you for this but it won't let me. VERY well done.

Thanks!! It's frustrating though how everyone always thinks this is overreacting but...better safe than sorry...

[treelizard]

I wonder what it would be like if each teacher and faculty member was given a caseload of students they were responsible for. To really get to know them, and for the students to be able to go to them if they were having any kind of problem. Or even upperclassmen who would mentor younger students.

By the way, most high schools have IEPs (individualized education plans) for students who are considered special ed which usually includes most students who are at risk.

Here's a paper I wrote on it last semester; I am just going to cut and paste it in. This is just useful info to have and also help brainstorm how to incorporate new measures...

I think there should be a security team that gets a copy of student IEPs, but everyone would probably cry oppression and violation of civil liberties and privacy and FERPA laws and all that.

Individualized Education Programs

An IEP is an individualized education program, or a document which serves as a blueprint for the education of a particular student who has an identified disability. The IEP addresses many different areas of student need, which include accommodations in classes and the services or support they need. Teachers are able to examine individualized education plans for their students so that they can accommodate these plans in their classroom.

There are several essential components of an IEP. Some of these were established in 1975 and others have been updated since then. Also, there are some specific state requirements which vary. What follows is a list of federally required elements. Following that, I will describe examples of these from Ms. XXXX's English class when applicable.

The first component is determining the student’s present level of functioning. The student’s level of achievement academically, his or her behavior, communication skills, social skills and other areas of concern must be included. This makes it easier to determine progress from year to year. Teachers can rate student behavior and provide test scores, but assessments by specialists are also included. Teachers receive information on the student’s disability and can determine how to address this in the classroom. Ms. XXXX was aware of which students had disabilities, which included several students with ADD, a student with bipolar and a student with a processing disability.

The second component is annual goals and short-term objectives. These are individualized goals estimating what a student should be able to accomplish within a year. Short-term objectives are smaller goals which can be completed in order to meet the larger annual goals. Most students in Ms. XXXX’s class had the goal of completing coursework in class with modifications. For example, her student with a processing disability had to complete all of the coursework, but received extensions on her paper. Some students were allowed to have their notes with them during tests.

The third component is the extent of participation in general education. This includes specific reasons why students must be excluded from general education classes. One example of this from Ms. XXXX’s class is an IEP that allows students with ADD to take tests in a testing center so they will not be distracted.

The fourth component is the services and modifications needed. The IEP must contain a thorough outline of any and all special services the student needs. This includes transportation, vocational assistance and so forth. It also includes who is responsible for providing the services. As described above, several of Ms. XXXX’s students needed some modifications in class. However, the class I observed was a low level class. She assured me that some of her kids with learning disabilities were doing better in class than some of her students without any learning disabilities.

The fifth component is a behavior intervention plan, or a discipline plan in place in case inappropriate behavior needs to be responded to. Luckily, Ms. XXXX has not had that problem in her class.

The sixth component is the date of initiation and frequency and duration of service and anticipated modifications. This is self-explanatory: it is a list of the dates special modifications and services begin, their frequency and when they must end. Ms. XXXX’s students who are receiving modifications from her in class will be receiving modifications all year long.

The seventh component is comprised of strategies for evaluation, or a checklist to evaluate whether the goals are being met. The final component is a transition plan, which ensures that a student will leave school prepared for adult life.

Other requirements of an IEP include signatures of the student’s parent or guardian, justification for the recommended placement and specific supports, services and strategies.

This assignment has made me grateful for the amount of work so many different professionals put into an IEP—and the fact that all teachers need to do is simply help implement it!

GARLAND'S INTERVENTION PLAN FOR SCREENING AND TAKING PROPHILACTIC MEASURES THAT AT-RISK KIDS DON'T TURN INTO DEVIANT ADOLESCENTS (the whole spectrum...would it help somebody like Cho...who knows)

[Tant01]

Okay, my money is going to Treelizard...

So sorry G man.

[treelizard]

Trained soldiers(of roughly the same age actually) have had problems with such situations in history...I feel it's a lot to expect from college students, particularly given the shock they'd feel of having something absolutely unexpected happen.

I wonder what the common denominator is for people who DO act, other than training. Maybe doing a lot of things that scare us all the time, or something.

One time my MA coach (who is awesome) went all out insane on a drill I knew, way faster and harder than I expected...and somehow after he did that I just didn't have as much trouble going in towards things swinging anymore. Not that this is even on the same magnitude, but maybe it's just about making training as realistic as possible.

And I agree with the dude interviewed who said students and classrooms should train just as seriously as attackers. Sadly, most teachers don't have that mindset.

[Tant01]

I wonder what the common denominator is for people who DO act, other than training. Maybe doing a lot of things that scare us all the time, or something.

......

That is a good question. I often find myself wondering the same thing about people who do NOT?

Being there seems like a good enough reason to me.

[Tom Yum]

Thanks for bringing that guy up, Mike. He is a true hero.

[treelizard]

I'd hazard a guess that it's a combination of moral fiber, character, resolute belief in one's core values, and experiences that define one's personal boundaries. Again, that 76 year old professor didn't have specialized SWAT training, but he'd seen enough evil in his time to know that someone needed to act - even if it was a frail old 76 year old.

In short, treelizard, I'm on the verge of conceeding our long-fought "self-interest" argument based on this example. He simply made those other souls in the room more important than his own, bit down, and took a stand.

Ha! But I think I was arguing the opposite in that I said split second decisions like me running that stoplight by accident aren't as conscious...

I'm trying to think about some recent examples of split second decisions... My former karate teacher was at the rollerskating rink (going really really fast) when a tiny kid ran out right in front of him... in a second he decided to wipe himself out rather than hit the kid. I would argue that it is years and years of training with the mindset of protecting kids that gave him the ability to do that... I saw a book which I think was called "Blink" and it was about how we make split second decisions and how to reprogram that... I should have bought it.

Other examples... let's see... I wrote briefly about opening a locked door for the dude pounding on our door at my job, because I thought he was in danger and thought he'd come in and I'd lock the door after him. Afterwards we realized the danger was over by the time he started pounding. And of course everyone criticized my decision, saying I was putting myself at risk. But I think it was a good risk; I think I could intuit the guy wasn't a threat to me (which he wasn't)... Hmmm... What else... When my house was broken into and I woke up half asleep with some dude standing over my bed, all I did was ask him who he was... I didn't "wake up" until after he was gone and yet somehow the detectives think me asking him who he was in itself was a deterrent. I guess other people assumed they knew who the guy was or didn't realize someone was in the room with them or were drunk. So I don't feel like I made a conscious choice to wake up and pay attention (had I gotten to choose my response it would have been far different), but I like to think that years of paying attention to what's around helped me out in that situation. And the last thing I can think of was that today I made some really bad hiking choices and found myself trying to get down a path that was way too steep as it was getting dark. I think I miscalculated my physical prowess, the elevation, etc. and the wild card was that somehow my long lost fear of heights resurfaced. Even though I was actually visibly shaking part of the way down, I was able to breath through it and somehow managed to get back down without any broken bones or even sprains, even with all of the controlled falling. So I like to think the reason I could do this is because I'm getting kind of used to doing scary things anyway. In fact, I seek them out. Whenever something makes me uncomfortable in MMA, I ask if we could work on just that for a while.

I read in one of those warrior books, I think On Combat, that the more you have thought about a situation the less likely you are to freak out when it happens. Or maybe it was the opposite--if you experience a situation you have never visualized, you are more likely to freeze up from fear when it does happen. So visualize it, train for it.

The other thing is that I think "what would you do if someone came into your classroom and started shooting" isn't the only question to ask. I was training with one of Blauer's guys (I love Tony Blauer's stuff) and I asked the requisite "what if someone lifts me up from behind to take me to a secondary location" which is something I've been working on for a couple years now. I'll practice what I learn in WSD classes against MMA guys with padding on and none of the shit ever works. He told me to stand there and do something as soon as I felt a threat. He came up behind me and the instant I felt him (I think he touched my hair or something) I flinched, said something like "Jesus" and immediately turned around in the proper stance and was ready for action. Then I started crying. (I don't know how he made the simulation so realistic but he was really really good.) In fact, I'd say that I could train MMA for fifteen hours a day and it wouldn't be as realistic as a simulation, and it probably wouldn't be as valuable as drills where people actually feel their body freezing up and work through it, or feel intense emotion and work through it, or feel that adrenaline rush and lose feeling in their hands and work through it... I wonder how this ties in with the research on state-dependent learning.

Anyways, the point was that these situations don't happen in a vaccuum (usually), that there are almost always indicators, there are almost always things you can do before you end up in the no-win situation. So the focus should be beyond "what will I do when someone starts shooting in my classroom" or "what if someone lifts me up and my shin kicks and headbutts don't work" or "what if I'm in a situation where I'm caught by surprise and all of the choices suck."

Just some thoughts.

[treelizard]

Ummm,
Wasn't this a thread about the victims and cisrcumstances of the mass murder at Virginia Tech? When did we let it turn into "Women are useless!" and "I hope you get dumped!"

It's a volatile issue, sure. But no need to recreate the killings in here.

Fair enough.

[Tom Yum]

Yet another going postal incident.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/ap_on_re_us/nasa_evacuation

HOUSTON - A
NASA contract worker took a handgun inside an office building Friday at the Johnson Space Center and fatally shot a hostage before killing himself, police said. A second hostage escaped with minor injuries.

The gunman was able to take a snub-nosed revolver past NASA security and barricade himself in the building, which houses communications and tracking systems for the space shuttle, authorities said.

NASA and police identified him as 60-year-old William Phillips. He had apparently had a dispute with the slain hostage, police said.

NASA identified the slain hostage as David Beverly, a civil servant who worked at the agency. Beverly, who was shot in the chest, was probably killed "in the early minutes of the whole ordeal," police said.

A second hostage, identified by NASA as Fran Crenshaw, escaped after being bound to a chair with duct tape, police Capt. Dwayne Ready said.

"Right now we're trying to understand why this happened, how this happened," Mike Coats, director of the Johnson Space Center, said at a news conference. He said they had reviewed their procedures earlier this week because of the Virginia Tech shootings.

"But of course we never believed this could happen here to our family and our situation."

NASA spokesman Doug Peterson said the agency would review its security.

To enter the space center, workers flash an ID badge as they drive past a security guard. The badge allows workers access to designated buildings.

The gunman, an employee of Jacobs Engineering of Pasadena, Calif., shot himself once in the head more than three hours after the standoff began, police said.

Reports indicated two shots were fired about 1:40 p.m. and another shot was heard about 5 p.m.

John Prosser, executive vice president of Jacobs Engineering, confirmed that the gunman was a company employee but declined to release any information about him.

Police said homicide investigators searched the gunman's house where he lived alone and found no guns or any evidence at all about the shooting. Police Chief Harold Hurtt said there was apparently a dispute between Phillips and Beverly, but didn't elaborate.

"I do not know what occurred between the two gentlemen today," Hurtt said.

He said Crenshaw, who worked in the same general area, was presumably taken hostage after Beverly was shot.

"She was very courageous, a calming influence in this whole issue and apparently was a very positive relationship between her and the suspect because he at no time that we know of threatened to do injury to her," Hurtt said.

Beverly's wife, Linda, said her husband was an electrical parts specialist and had recently celebrated 25 years of service with NASA. She said her husband had mentioned Phillips to her before, but she declined to say in what regard. She said it wouldn't be fair to Phillips.

Coats said Phillips had worked for NASA for 12 to 13 years and "up until recently, he has been a good employee."

During the confrontation, NASA employees in the building were evacuated and others were ordered to remain in their offices for several hours. Roads within the 1,600-acre space center campus were also blocked off, and a nearby middle school kept its teachers and students inside as classes ended.

Doors to Mission Control were locked as standard procedure.

NASA employees and contract workers were kept informed of the situation by e-mail.

Michael Zolensky, who studies cosmic dust, said workers were gathered around a television watching news reports of the situation.

President Bush was informed about the gunman as he flew back to Washington from an event in Michigan, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Jacobs Engineering provides engineering for the international space station, space shuttle and other spacecraft programs, and conducts research and development for new technology. In 2005, the company received a five-year contract with the space center worth up to $1.15 billion.