Gunman Kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[treelizard]

I do think they should let teachers have weapons but sadly many teachers are incapable of operating a computer, let alone a weapon. And a lot of security sucks.

Until that time teachers and students need to take responsibility for their own safety.

[Tom Yum]

Since there were no ninja's available at the seen, what are some of the other possible safety measures that could have been taken?

[DickHardman]

Since there were no ninja's available at the seen, what are some of the other possible safety measures that could have been taken?

http://www.usnightvision.com/Night_Vision_Products.htm?PID=0000000140

[treelizard]

Since there were no ninja's available at the seen, what are some of the other possible safety measures that could have been taken?

Before or during?

[Tom Yum]

Would it be a good idea to get into an office, lock the doors and secure it with a heavy object? You'd probably want to take in as many folks as you can support while hitting up 911.

[Tom Yum]

Before or during?

I'd say both.

[treelizard]

Check this out: http://www.newsone.ca/hinesbergjourn...lnews&id=95333

I was observing at a class where a student turned in a suicidal poem. It was the only thing he'd turned in all year. The teacher said "Isn't this a good poem?" She wouldn't act on it. I called the school and spoke with his counselor and case worker. I also talked to the assistant principal in case the counselor and case worker failed to follow through. It looks like he was referred to counseling though, so somebody may have dropped the ball...

[treelizard]

Check out this quote

Liviu Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was killed after he was said to have protected his students‘ lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the gunman.

[treelizard]

Here is another quote. 76 years old. Amazing.

76-year-old professor Liviu Librescu was apparently one of the heroes who didn't survive the shootings. Students say the Holocaust survivor barricaded a classroom door so they could escape through a window before he was eventually gunned down.

[Tom Yum]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_tech_shooting;_ylt=AuC8cE60Viyq.tKCDaC3EYJH2ocA

BLACKSBURG, Va. - The gunman in the Virginia Tech massacre was a sullen loner who alarmed professors and classmates with his twisted, violence-drenched creative writing and left a rambling note in his dorm room raging against women and rich kids. A chilling picture emerged Tuesday of Cho Seung-Hui — a 23-year-old senior majoring in English — a day after the bloodbath that left 33 people dead, including Cho, who killed himself as police closed in.

News reports said that he may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

A student who attended Virginia Tech last fall provided obscenity- and violence-laced screenplays that he said Cho wrote as part of a playwriting class they both took. One was about a fight between a stepson and his stepfather, and involved throwing of hammers and attacks with a chainsaw. Another was about students fantasizing about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of," former classmate Ian McFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site. He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said Cho's writing was so disturbing that he had been referred to the university's counseling service.

"Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be," Rude said. "But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said she did not know when he was referred for counseling, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws. The counseling service refused to comment.

Cho — who arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., where his parents worked at a dry cleaners — left a note in his dorm room that was found after the bloodbath.

A government official, who spoke of condition of anonymity because he had not been authorized to discuss details of the case, said the note had been described to him as "anti-woman, anti-rich kid."

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that the note railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. ABC, citing law enforcement sources, said that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said there was no evidence so far that Cho left a suicide note, but he said authorities were going through a considerable number of writings.

Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune also said Cho had recently set a fire in a dorm room and had stalked some women.

Monday's rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart — first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died. Two handguns — a 9 mm and a .22-caliber — were found in the classroom building.

The Washington Post quoted law enforcement sources as saying Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.

According to court papers, police found a "bomb threat" note — directed at engineering school buildings — near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech was hit with two other bomb threats. Investigators have not connected those earlier threats to Cho.

Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

At least one of those killed in the rampage, Reema Samaha, graduated from Westfield High in 2006. But there was no immediate word from authorities on whether Cho knew the young woman and singled her out.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

Classmates painted a similar picture. Some said that on the first day of a British literature class last year, the 30 or so students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

On the sign-in sheet where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, `Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

"He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious," Markell said.

Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But State Police ballistics tests showed one gun was used in both.

And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were on both guns, whose serial numbers had been filed off.

Gov. Tim Kaine said he will appoint a panel at the university's request to review authorities' handling of the disaster. Parents and students bitterly complained that the university should have locked down the campus immediately after the first burst of gunfire and did not do enough to warn people.

Kaine warned against making snap judgments and said he had "nothing but loathing" for those who take the tragedy and "make it their political hobby horse to ride."

On Tuesday afternoon, thousands of people gathered in the basketball arena for a memorial service for the victims, with an overflow crowd of thousands watching on a jumbo TV screen in the football stadium. President Bush and the first lady attended.

"As you draw closer to your families in the coming days, I ask you to reach out to those who ache for sons and daughters who are never coming home," Bush said.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger received a 30-second standing ovation, despite the criticism of the school administration.

With classes canceled for the rest of the week, many students left town in a hurry, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, headed for her car with tears streaming down her cheeks.

"I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around.'"

She added: "I just don't want to be on campus."

Stories of heroism and ingenuity emerged Tuesday.

Liviu Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was killed after he was said to have protected his students' lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the gunman. And one student, an Eagle Scout, probably saved his own life by using an electrical cord as a tourniquet around his bleeding thigh, a doctor reported.

[treelizard]

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=1faa1696-7865-4c1f-b72d-115f2adc9e8e&f=00&fg=email

[Tom Yum]

From what I gather, he seemed like a quiet, isolated kid who just bottled up all of his emotions for what probably seems like years. I mean, you just don't go out and radnomly murder strangers unless there's some kind of pressing or extreme emotional issue. His creative writing story mentions an abusive stepfather and someone getting beaten by hammers? Perhaps he was beaten...alot as a kid.

I wish someone would have reached out to that guy and tried to be his friend; maybe he viewed his colleagues as snobish, considering he wrote those letters raging against the "rich" and women, pointing out a negative reaction to his perceived environmental factors.

That being said, I think being friendly and unassuming to folks around you is a good thing and in cases like this may have been another method of prevention?

[Garland]

LOL. you really think that when someone has just opened fire on you with a gun that you have the kind of time and clarity of mind to simply go over to a table or chair, pick it up, then go all the way over to the attacker and then try to hit him with it? are you kidding? dude, you watch way too many movies. what you see in hollywood movies is not the same as in real life.

i heard one of the dead professors was a military man. im sure he would have stopped the gunman if he could have.

I agree with Dickhead. (you knows I loves ya) He's got some pretty valid points.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

May the deceased rest in peace,

and all the families, well , I dont know what to say,,,, cant even imagine what they are going through

its a tragedy....

[SamuraiGuy]

From what I gather, he seemed like a quiet, isolated kid who just bottled up all of his emotions for what probably seems like years. I mean, you just don't go out and radnomly murder strangers unless there's some kind of pressing or extreme emotional issue. His creative writing story mentions an abusive stepfather and someone getting beaten by hammers? Perhaps he was beaten...alot as a kid.

I wish someone would have reached out to that guy and tried to be his friend; maybe he viewed his colleagues as snobish, considering he wrote those letters raging against the "rich" and women, pointing out a negative reaction to his perceived environmental factors.

Thing is this would be classified as a mass murder and theres profiles and things that go along with this.

Mass murders are usually "set off". Something goes off in the murderer, or something happens which makes them commit this act, its usually a single powerful event or change. It would be interesting to note what set him off, or was the big change that caused him to do this.

On another note, pertaining to TreeLizard's and Dick's discussion.

I think in a way they are both right. If a guy walked into the class room and shot someone, if everyone just immediately bum rushed him and tackled him they wouldnt need any weapons etc... he would be disarmed and mauled within seconds. The problem with this is that he's got a gun, (or two apparently) and that on the way 2 or 3 people are likely to get shot, injured, or killed.

While 2 or 3 possible deaths is obviously a far nicer outcome than 30+, this isnt generally the case.

Why is this?

No one wants to be one of those 3 people that gets killed. So everyone has a screw it every man for themselves approach.

Its nice to think that you would defend people, or attack the attacker, but 95% of the time your going to think "oh shit" and just take off the other way.

Heres the other side to the coin, me and my girlfriend were discussing this, and I brought up the "attack the attacker" point. And she told me, "if this ever happens to you, you better be one of the people running away".

This is an interesting point, while you may have the tools and mindset to act heroic, etc... you have to think about leaving the people yo ucare about behind.

Seems selfish, and in a way it is, kind of a "my family is more important than the next students family" but thats the way it goes in life.

Coincidentally, I might not be a LEO as I had thought I wanted to be. I think (I dont know obviously) that I could risk my life defending people, saving people etc... but I cant risk dying on the people that I love. Its not fair to them.

Food for thought.