Gunman Kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[treelizard]

I talked to some SD guys and they think they'll videotape scenes as they do them in training. I'd want ALL of the school shooting scenarios from the past however many years to be in there, too. It'll be fun. And I asked them if I could help mail the info to all the different schools and districts, or be involved in some way, once it is completed.

[Tom Yum]

I thought it would be really cool to put together a video with a bunch of examples of alternate endings where the BG actually gets taken out using only supplies that would be available in a regular classroom. Not only would it be a lot of fun to put together but people who have no way to conceptualize actually fighting back could physically see what it looks like. There could be maybe five or six different examples, one in which the whole entire class fights back and one in which it's just a few people. I'd like it if it was as realistic as possible. And it would really get up in rank on youtube quickly if it was done well...

Good idea, Tree.

How does the BG enter the scene? How is the classroom set up?

In the case of VT, I believe he just rushed through the door and began shooting at the closest victims. You could play with other scenarios where he is sitting in class etc.

[bigred389]

Good call... I keep a fire extinguisher in my car, why not in the classroom? Just for emergency fires, of course.

Why not in the classroom?

Because jackasses like to set them off for fun?

Remember...these are COLLEGE students.

[treelizard]

I think it depends on the school's facilities. I can honestly say I've seen very few fire extinguishers where I went...lots of sprinklers though.

Good call... I keep a fire extinguisher in my car, why not in the classroom? Just for emergency fires, of course.

[DickHardman]

I wonder also about waiting or positioning near the doorway to ambush the shooter. Something heavy (metallic) to hit him (or his weapon hand) with... Say a fire extinguisher? There should be one near any classroom.

Thoughts?

wait by the doorway flat against the wall and wait for him with knife. that is assuming you know he is coming your way and hasnt spotted you.

[bigred389]

I'm wondering how the door(s) were blocked from the inside? In most public places doors are required to open outward from the enclosed space. Something to do with fire codes and evacuation procedures.

I have used a big heavy door to attack before. I kicked it very hard when the guy was preparing to open it. The impact knocked him flat on his ass. It bounced back and hit the toe of my boot as I tried to go out to finish the guy (disarm and restrain). It worked well...

I wonder also about waiting or positioning near the doorway to ambush the shooter. Something heavy (metallic) to hit him (or his weapon hand) with... Say a fire extinguisher? There should be one near any classroom.
Thoughts?

I think it depends on the school's facilities. I can honestly say I've seen very few fire extinguishers where I went...lots of sprinklers though.

[Tant01]

I'm wondering how the door(s) were blocked from the inside? In most public places doors are required to open outward from the enclosed space. Something to do with fire codes and evacuation procedures.

I have used a big heavy door to attack before. I kicked it very hard when the guy was preparing to open it. The impact knocked him flat on his ass. It bounced back and hit the toe of my boot as I tried to go out to finish the guy (disarm and restrain). It worked well...

I wonder also about waiting or positioning near the doorway to ambush the shooter. Something heavy (metallic) to hit him (or his weapon hand) with... Say a fire extinguisher? There should be one near any classroom.

Thoughts?

[treelizard]

I thought it would be really cool to put together a video with a bunch of examples of alternate endings where the BG actually gets taken out using only supplies that would be available in a regular classroom. Not only would it be a lot of fun to put together but people who have no way to conceptualize actually fighting back could physically see what it looks like. There could be maybe five or six different examples, one in which the whole entire class fights back and one in which it's just a few people. I'd like it if it was as realistic as possible. And it would really get up in rank on youtube quickly if it was done well...

[darrianation]

Mike Brewer: the victims of this massacre would have had to have been conditioned to see resistance as an option.

Nail on the head!

Again, we have to look at what difference it makes if the guy reloaded in a half a second or ten seconds. A 76 year-old professor resisted, and while he died for his efforts, he saved a lot of lives. Another student resisted, and not one person in his classroom was killed.

Where did passivity get anyone?

Resistance to the threat seems to have saved a lot more lives that day than did passivity or compliance.

Excellent!

[shaolin-warrior]

Mike,
Let me shake your hand and buy you a beer. We take our own personal safety way to lightly in this country. As much as we Bit#h about the government and war and violent misleading acts, we want the government to be first line in our defense. We need to learn to think and act like our lives depend on it because they do. And we who are parents need to give our children the proper tools to do this also. This is our responsibility,to ourselves and society. I've had parents ask me " why do make your little girl take Karate?" "It's so violent!" My reply is usually along these lines," when my children go out with me I can protect them from harm, but when they go out on their own, I don't want to have to worry about them being able to protect themselves." This is a violent world we live in, full of predators, and no one should be an unsuspecting victim of circumstance.

[bigred389]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c45_1176890967

student says it took him 1-2 seconds to reload and keep firing.

Yup that's what I'd heard too, but didn't have a source. Thanks.

[DickHardman]

Also, other accounts said the shooter was simply dropping his clips to reload, and reloading like someone who'd practiced it many times. I'm sure we've all seen the clip of the guy reloadng his weapon in about half a second.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c45_1176890967

student says it took him 1-2 seconds to reload and keep firing.

[bigred389]

Well some things to chew on:

Reportedly an Air Force ROTC student that was killed was attempting to tackle the shooter from behind.

Also, other accounts said the shooter was simply dropping his clips to reload, and reloading like someone who'd practiced it many times. I'm sure we've all seen the clip of the guy reloadng his weapon in about half a second.

[Tant01]

How many times did what's his name have to reload? ....

That's a good question. It depends on how many clips he had ready to go. I'm sure he had to stop at least once to reload the clips. Changing out the empty clip for fresh one only takes a couple seconds but putting fresh ammo into a clip takes much longer.

There were missed opportunities to attack the shooter but I don't fault the victims for failing to engage during the moments it took him to reload.

[treelizard]

How many times did what's his name have to reload? Did he do a tactical reload or a speed reload or just a regular reload? I'm just wondering... was talking about this whole thing with some martial artists and we were trying to figure out how many people may have heard him outside their room reloading... which would be as good a time as any to try to take some sort of action.