Gunman Kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[Tom Yum]

I've talked to dozens of Korean folks who are really upset about all this, for the horrible loss of all those young lives of course, but also because he was Korean. There is a strong collective identification that both makes many folks feel somehow guilty by association (however illogical that may be) and nervous about reprisals (I've said over and over that I don't see that in any way being an issue here) and about being tainted by the actions of this sick freak.

In Korea there is a real fear that this could have serious consequences for relations between our two nations, though I really don't think many Americans (and certainly not at any official level) see the situation that way.

This is probably not the appropriate time to get into it, but the differing reactions and concerns are interesting in several ways.

I can see how the Korean community would think that, but you're right.

[jubaji]

I've talked to dozens of Korean folks who are really upset about all this, for the horrible loss of all those young lives of course, but also because he was Korean. There is a strong collective identification that both makes many folks feel somehow guilty by association (however illogical that may be) and nervous about reprisals (I've said over and over that I don't see that in any way being an issue here) and about being tainted by the actions of this sick freak.

In Korea there is a real fear that this could have serious consequences for relations between our two nations, though I really don't think many Americans (and certainly not at any official level) see the situation that way.

This is probably not the appropriate time to get into it, but the differing reactions and concerns are interesting in several ways.

[treelizard]

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=86A490DD-0A4A-42FC-B2AC-E66FF24A72F5&t=c3557&f=06/64&p=hotvideo_m_vatech&fg=&GT1=9246

[Tom Yum]

Should we pity the shooter? Can we have empathy for him to some extent?.

Should we pity the shooter?

In the final analysis, yes. While I think someone should have reached out to this guy when he started showing signs of isolation, his actions reflect instability and selfishness. You don't go taking away 30+ people's innocent lives.

-another interesting question is- Why did this young man do this? Who was he, and perhaps...what was he? It's the million dollar question...paint a profile.

You can piece together a profile by reading accounts of his works in creative writing class and the final note he left in his room.

It sounds like extreme depression meets Mary Shelly's Frankenstein.

[Tom Yum]

And the chest beating and Monday morning QBing is getting ridiculous. You're either full of hot air, or you're looking for an opportunity to be a hero. Sorry, but both make you an attention whore.
I'd like to think I would have the mental clarity to do something "productive" in that sort of situation, but I really can only hope I'd function under that sort of shock and stress. Not to mention the logical difficulties of confronting a shooter when a wall of people are coming at you trying to get the hell out and he's shooting the closest thing that's moving.

The CCW laws in certain states forbit adults from carrying in places like schools and other places, that make a certain % revenue from alcohol -> so very few law-abiding folk would have been armed. Ironically, anyone who would have been armed could have prevented the high death toll.

As far as getting into an office, pulling in stragglers and locking or securing the door and calling 911, that's not chest beating -> that's instinct.

[bigred389]

Oops...brain fart.

[treelizard]

Would it be a good idea to get into an office, lock the doors and secure it with a heavy object? You'd probably want to take in as many folks as you can support while hitting up 911.

That's what this guy did: http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...e.witness.wdbj

He's a hero.

[treelizard]

Is it better to run, hide, and survive without the bravado we tend to delude ourselves as having on this site? For our loved ones?

What if you're WITH your loved ones, as is often the case? I guess you have to ask yourself if you want to be the one running and hiding and surviving if that means your loved ones get killed.

[treelizard]

I feel for the families, but I don't feel any sympathy for the murderer at all. Since he killed himself afterwards anyway, I wish he would've just spared the rest of them.

[bigred389]

I can certainly empathise...I've felt like the loner/outcast before, and honestly it was a pretty shitty feeling. And I also know what an abusive upbringing can be like.
I really do pity him...and the victims. Seems like he was referred to counseling for writing disturbing things...for at least his own safety someone should have seen it through, if not for the potential victims of his flame out.

And the chest beating and Monday morning QBing is getting ridiculous. You're either full of hot air, or you're looking for an opportunity to be a hero. Sorry, but both make you an attention whore.
I'd like to think I would have the mental clarity to do something "productive" in that sort of situation, but I really can only hope I'd function under that sort of shock and stress. Not to mention the logical difficulties of confronting a shooter when a wall of people are coming at you trying to get the hell out and he's shooting the closest thing that's moving.

[Garland]

From what I gather, he seemed like a quiet, isolated kid who just bottled up all of his emotions for what probably seems like years. I mean, you just don't go out and radnomly murder strangers unless there's some kind of pressing or extreme emotional issue. His creative writing story mentions an abusive stepfather and someone getting beaten by hammers? Perhaps he was beaten...alot as a kid.

I wish someone would have reached out to that guy and tried to be his friend; maybe he viewed his colleagues as snobish, considering he wrote those letters raging against the "rich" and women, pointing out a negative reaction to his perceived environmental factors.

That being said, I think being friendly and unassuming to folks around you is a good thing and in cases like this may have been another method of prevention?

Tom Yum...I knew you were a bright guy, but to be THIS empathetic and this insightful in the wake of a tragedy like this to the person responsible speaks volumes to your character. I agree wholeheartedly to your statements and I applaud you for saying it.

Heres the other side to the coin, me and my girlfriend were discussing this, and I brought up the "attack the attacker" point. And she told me, "if this ever happens to you, you better be one of the people running away".

This is an interesting point, while you may have the tools and mindset to act heroic, etc... you have to think about leaving the people yo ucare about behind.

Seems selfish, and in a way it is, kind of a "my family is more important than the next students family" but thats the way it goes in life.

Coincidentally, I might not be a LEO as I had thought I wanted to be. I think (I dont know obviously) that I could risk my life defending people, saving people etc... but I cant risk dying on the people that I love. Its not fair to them.

Food for thought.

Amen. Very true. You've obviously put a great deal of thought into this and I am absolutely stunned by your conclusion. I am very suprised and very glad to see somebody come to this conclusion and have the guts to say it.


Both of you guys said some things that I think require quite a bit of courage and self reflection. To be able to empathize with the shooter and pity him and to be able to say that running away or hiding in those situations is valorous are both things I would consider to be fairly unpopular opinions on this thread given my schema of past discussions...and yet both of those opinions are incredibly salient and are things that need to be thought about.

Should we pity the shooter? Can we have empathy for him to some extent?

Is it better to run, hide, and survive without the bravado we tend to delude ourselves as having on this site? For our loved ones?

I think the answer to both of those questions is an emphatic YES!

What are other people's opinions?





-another interesting question is- Why did this young man do this? Who was he, and perhaps...what was he? It's the million dollar question...paint a profile.

[SamuraiGuy]

From what I gather, he seemed like a quiet, isolated kid who just bottled up all of his emotions for what probably seems like years. I mean, you just don't go out and radnomly murder strangers unless there's some kind of pressing or extreme emotional issue. His creative writing story mentions an abusive stepfather and someone getting beaten by hammers? Perhaps he was beaten...alot as a kid.

I wish someone would have reached out to that guy and tried to be his friend; maybe he viewed his colleagues as snobish, considering he wrote those letters raging against the "rich" and women, pointing out a negative reaction to his perceived environmental factors.

Thing is this would be classified as a mass murder and theres profiles and things that go along with this.

Mass murders are usually "set off". Something goes off in the murderer, or something happens which makes them commit this act, its usually a single powerful event or change. It would be interesting to note what set him off, or was the big change that caused him to do this.

On another note, pertaining to TreeLizard's and Dick's discussion.

I think in a way they are both right. If a guy walked into the class room and shot someone, if everyone just immediately bum rushed him and tackled him they wouldnt need any weapons etc... he would be disarmed and mauled within seconds. The problem with this is that he's got a gun, (or two apparently) and that on the way 2 or 3 people are likely to get shot, injured, or killed.

While 2 or 3 possible deaths is obviously a far nicer outcome than 30+, this isnt generally the case.

Why is this?

No one wants to be one of those 3 people that gets killed. So everyone has a screw it every man for themselves approach.

Its nice to think that you would defend people, or attack the attacker, but 95% of the time your going to think "oh shit" and just take off the other way.

Heres the other side to the coin, me and my girlfriend were discussing this, and I brought up the "attack the attacker" point. And she told me, "if this ever happens to you, you better be one of the people running away".

This is an interesting point, while you may have the tools and mindset to act heroic, etc... you have to think about leaving the people yo ucare about behind.

Seems selfish, and in a way it is, kind of a "my family is more important than the next students family" but thats the way it goes in life.

Coincidentally, I might not be a LEO as I had thought I wanted to be. I think (I dont know obviously) that I could risk my life defending people, saving people etc... but I cant risk dying on the people that I love. Its not fair to them.

Food for thought.

[Jiu-fu fighter]

May the deceased rest in peace,

and all the families, well , I dont know what to say,,,, cant even imagine what they are going through

its a tragedy....

[Garland]

LOL. you really think that when someone has just opened fire on you with a gun that you have the kind of time and clarity of mind to simply go over to a table or chair, pick it up, then go all the way over to the attacker and then try to hit him with it? are you kidding? dude, you watch way too many movies. what you see in hollywood movies is not the same as in real life.

i heard one of the dead professors was a military man. im sure he would have stopped the gunman if he could have.

I agree with Dickhead. (you knows I loves ya) He's got some pretty valid points.

[Tom Yum]

From what I gather, he seemed like a quiet, isolated kid who just bottled up all of his emotions for what probably seems like years. I mean, you just don't go out and radnomly murder strangers unless there's some kind of pressing or extreme emotional issue. His creative writing story mentions an abusive stepfather and someone getting beaten by hammers? Perhaps he was beaten...alot as a kid.

I wish someone would have reached out to that guy and tried to be his friend; maybe he viewed his colleagues as snobish, considering he wrote those letters raging against the "rich" and women, pointing out a negative reaction to his perceived environmental factors.

That being said, I think being friendly and unassuming to folks around you is a good thing and in cases like this may have been another method of prevention?