A question of mind-set

[darrianation]

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[Tom Yum]

I have said this before but when the difference between winning and loosing, living and dieing is measured in seconds, it is the guy who is willing to die for those precious seconds who is going to be the guy who wins that fight.

I do remember you saying something like this. It reminds me a little of something I read in the Hagakure.

[..n..]

I understand the thinking that assumes all physical encounters have the potential to escalate and become a worst case scenario. I agree with this philosophy but find myself questioning the ramifications one may face legally if you pursue a confrontation to the end as if the assailant was armed etc… when in fact they weren’t. Assuming deescalation is not an option, you fight as if your opponent is armed looking for blood and has a cohort in the wings, you beat the living tar out of the person incapacitating them, and they have no weapon etc.. aren’t you potently liable and, if arrested, up for an assault charge?

[Tant01]

I understand the thinking that assumes all physical encounters have the potential to escalate and become a worst case scenario. I agree with this philosophy but find myself questioning the ramifications one may face legally if you pursue a confrontation to the end as if the assailant was armed etc… when in fact they weren’t. Assuming deescalation is not an option, you fight as if your opponent is armed looking for blood and has a cohort in the wings, you beat the living tar out of the person incapacitating them, and they have no weapon etc.. aren’t you potently liable and, if arrested, up for an assault charge?

"Self defense" is a legal term to justify using force. It is YOUR responsibility to know when that force is "REASONABLE" and justified.

[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[Tom Yum]

Darrianation, you're contributions on the topic are logical, detailed and comprehensive. Thank you for sharing!

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

it seems the "invisible line" you are searching for is the recognition/reaction ratio. this is a little phrase coined to indicate the amount of force you deal out in relation to the threat you percieve.

you are correct in the idea that a majority of "combatives advocates" tend toward the terminal extreme.

actually, this subject is entirely a matter of mind set.

before any kind of scenario training, or weapons training... one should REALLY examine the idea of "fight". questions that should be answered are:

what constitutes a threat? this could also be known as "at what point does one act?"

how far would one actually go to end a conflict? this could also be know as "how much damage is one ACTUALLY willing to inflict?"


these are the two essential questions that many, if not most never reflect upon. this is not something anyone else can tell you. "attend my seminar and you will learn exactly what to do and how to do it!!!"

even those who have extraordinary levels of training in knifework or mma or anything like that find killing to be morally reprehensible and terrifying.

true, many might kill, if they are about to be killed. but even then, a moments hesitation is all it takes to loose ones life. the point of bringing this up, is simple. if you have already determined your actionable criteria, and you already know how far you are willing to go, it will greatly increase your confidence, speed of learning techniques and your reaction time.

but lsd, how can this be?

simple. have any of you ever been a kid? been in a standoff with another kid, about to fight? been scared out of your mind? any idea what you were afraid of?

you would be suprised how many are afraid because they are afraid of doing harm. many are afraid to act, because they are unsure of the boundaries. no decision has been made regarding the outcome. the fight is one large unknown. if you can add some known factors, you diminish the ability of fear to "run away with you". confidence.

when you know what you are training for, in as much detail as possible, it becomes easier to focus your learning efforts. (this next part is really gonna get some peoples undies bunched up). have you ever noticed that in jiujitsu, when someone is pursuing a belt level (like black) it takes x number of years? yet when they train for a goal like pan am champion, adcc champion, or whatever, it takes about half the time? ever notice that mma fighters are professional grade in about 3 years? if there weren't any shows (and therefore it became difficult to relate to) how long do you think it would take then? that clarity (for on reason or another) really speeds up the learning process.

then you know the following: the techniques, the actionable situations (if this, then fight), the terminal result desired, then the speed with which you can react and nullify the threat greatly increases.

the only thing left to do is learn threat recognition. sounds straightforeward, but it is a little deceiving. the overt stuff, like "gonna kick your ass" or picking up a pipe, is easy enough to recognize. part of threat recognition is learning how "bad guys" select thier targets, conceal weapons, initiate conflicts, etc.

tonyblauer (of blauersystems) worked for years to identify all of the factors that constitute threat and provide solutions. when you are "armed" with all these facets of knowledge, the notion of combatives changes. it becomes more personal and in doing so, becomes more useful. you are more likely to survive.

more to follow.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

apologies for the verbose explaination. but it seemed necessary to illustrate these points in order to fully address the concept "where do you draw the line and what do you do when it is crossed".

noone can "tell" you. that you must decide for yourself. be realistic. don't be impressed the flashy or famous. only you will ever really know what you are willing to do. by all means train and learn. you can even engineer "reality sparring" sessions. but this is just practice in controlled conditions.

hopefully this helps a bit.

thanks.