knife defence question

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

there is a Paul Vunak clip that's popped up on this site a couple times where he mentions that alot of knife defence techniques presuppose that you will be able to take a blow from your opponent's knife on your forearm to open up an opportunity to strike back with your own knife. Vunak then goes on to demonstrate what a horrible idea that is, since you would go into shock within seconds from that kind of wound.
but why is something like a bracer or tonfa never really discussed as an sd option? both of those choices would enable you to block a knife strike, and the tonfa especially would allow you a greater spectrum of force to use if you wanted to defend yourself by just breaking some bones or knocking a guy out, whereas a knife fight is pretty much kill or be killed. true, a bracer may not be the kind of fashion statement you want to make unless you're a goth kid or a huge Xena fan, but a tonfa could be concealed almost as easily as a knife. any thoughts?

[DickHardman]

honestly, i dont think carrying around a tonfa is practical. a pocket knife will disappear into your pocket, i dont know how you would go about your day with a tonfa on your person. over here in california, carrying around any kind of stick like that for a weapon is an automatic felony. im sure carrying around sticks/batons for self defense are also illegal in many other places. if not, then carrying a retractable baton would be worth it, as that can actually be carried around pretty easily and its VERY effective.

i do occasionally carry around my kabuton(pocket stick). its metal and small as a pen. has no reach, but can be used as a great impact weapon.

[jonbey]

That video is just insane. They are completely nuts!

[jonbey]

Oh, the video made me totally forget the thread in question. If I was in a sd situation, and I saw a knife, I would probably run as fast as possible (if I were alone).

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Oh, the video made me totally forget the thread in question. If I was in a sd situation, and I saw a knife, I would probably run as fast as possible (if I were alone).

Well that would always be one of my preferred choices too, but i think most of the self-defence dialogues we get into on this forum assume that there is no safe way to disengage the situation.

[jonbey]

Doh, I just wrote a massive reply, and then hit the back button on my mouse accidently, and lost what I wrote.

Ok. Really, I think that if see a knife and have time to think, then you have time to run. If someone is waving a knife in front of you threatening you, then it is most likely they do not want to stab you. Most knife attacks are quick stabs when people are not looking, in the back etc.

But as for self defense, then I think that you will either react in a good way (hopefully as the result of years of training, repeating drills etc.) or you will get stabbed.

OK, if someone comes at you with a nice straight thrust, or a have head downward stab, then there are the block, lock and breaks that can be done. But in a real situation, no-one will try to stab you like that. It will be more like a jab most likely, so you have to move out the way.

I really think that there is no way to really answer this question. Just pray it never happens, and if it does and you survive, tell us what you did, and if you automatically applied any techniques learnt over the years. THen we can all practice those techniques a little more!

[Uke]

First off, let me be the first to say that cute to the forearm will NOT send the average man into shock. There are places on the arm where you can be cut and it will have a dramatic effect eventually, but I've not only seen but have had pretty bad slices to the forearms and I didn't pass out. I've seen people have their arms sliced opened in several areas at one time and they were able to keep on fighting.

That's one of the problems with some people. They like to pretend that once you're touched with a blade the fight is over. Far from it. I've seen people stabbed in the abdomen and still won their fight. I've seen people shot who continued to fight. A lot of people assume that the all you have to do is land cleanly and its over. Bullshit. Unless you land a wound that kills or maims with a knife it isn't usually a fight ender like blows with imapct weapons are.

As far as landing on the forearms, I've NEVER seen anyone advocate getting cut anywhere. I've heard people teach that we should train with the knowledge that getting cut is a very good possibility. I've also learned that its best to take no damage at all, but if one must take damage its better to take it to the forearms than to the throacic cavity, abdomen, neck, face, groin or even the legs.

When you see drills that deal with weapons, the drills address controlling and deflecting and checking the weapon ARM, not the weapon itself. No one competent is going to offer up their forearm as a first line of defense unless the attack is sudden and they need a shield. Besides that scenario, you'll notice that any competent practitioner of edged weapon tactics will offer the least amount of targets.

In the case of one man armed while the other wields a blade, if running isn't an option then the intelligent option is to control the weapon hand while you attack to disrupt, disorientate and disarm. Now while in the process of executing, would you rather take punctures/slashes to your forearms or to your neck or chest?

Weapon defense IS very possible, but it isn't infallible. Smart people train with this fact in mind and tailor their training so that when something goes wrong they can survive the error and continue to the best of their ability.

[jubaji]

Aaaaw, that forearm is adorable!

First off, let me be the first to say that cute to the forearm will NOT send the average man into shock.

I guess that would depend on just how cute it really was.

[Garland]

IS[/U] very possible, but it isn't infallible. Smart people train with this fact in mind and tailor their training so that when something goes wrong they can survive the error and continue to the best of their ability.

I think the most important thing is caution. If you are a-cutely aware of your surroundings, the people around you, and are keeping a distance and your eyes open, you can avoid becoming drawn into a situation wherein an assailant can draw on you, or even worse, suprise you with a cute in-between the ribs.

[Uke]

I think the most important thing is caution. If you are a-cutely aware of your surroundings, the people around you, and are keeping a distance and your eyes open, you can avoid becoming drawn into a situation wherein an assailant can draw on you, or even worse, suprise you with a cute in-between the ribs.

Really? So when you're with your girl or kid, you're going to run and leave them to fend for themselves? And as far as caution goes ... once its begun you better hope that your training was thorough, because there's not a lot of caution that can be exercised during a knife attack. Its act and react to the best of your ability and hope that your training drilled in good habits.

So many people have this idea that that knife attacks are like West Side story where a guy squares up on you and begins tossing his knife from hand to hand. They never factor in that crooks aren't stupid and are more likely to target someone who has a loved one with them rather than a guy who is alone and looks like he'll be able to run or put up a fight. If running was such a universal solution, then everyone would just run away. I love how so many are mislead to believe that you can just simply run and others won't give chase. Its like they believe that once you become a criminal you become slow on your feet and develop asthma, unable to run after a target.

Not that you implied that, Garland. You were talking about getting cute ribs and all.

[Garland]

Really? So when you're with your girl or kid, you're going to run and leave them to fend for themselves? And as far as caution goes ... once its begun you better hope that your training was thorough, because there's not a lot of caution that can be exercised during a knife attack. Its act and react to the best of your ability and hope that your training drilled in good habits.

So many people have this idea that that knife attacks are like West Side story where a guy squares up on you and begins tossing his knife from hand to hand. They never factor in that crooks aren't stupid and are more likely to target someone who has a loved one with them rather than a guy who is alone and looks like he'll be able to run or put up a fight. If running was such a universal solution, then everyone would just run away. I.

Not that you implied that, Garland. You were talking about getting cute ribs and all.

I'm not talking about running...I'm talking about situational awareness and keeping distance from people who look suspicious, keeping an eye on who's around, what they're wearing...always assuming that they're armed...who's with who...where they are...etc.

I have seen stabbings (2) and I know it doesn't go down a'la West Side Story...in one case it was an arguement that escalated and the other guy never even saw the knife...and in the other it was some **** who just walked up to a guy we were partying with, and as they brushed past him, stuck him in the abdomen. In neither case did the stabee even see the knife...my friend didn't even realized he'd been stabbed for about 45 seconds, after the other guy hoofed it. I guess it may take awhile for the reality of it all to sink in.

[DickHardman]

i dont even think any of this matters. we all die eventually, so none of this even really means anything. if you get shanked, that sucks, just stfu and roll up into a ball and die already and get it over with. just hope god will be kind enough to give you a shitty cot to lay on in some corner after its all said and done.

now excuse my while i go smoke weed till my eyes bleed and i pass out so i can get up in time to go back to work again.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

i dont even think any of this matters. we all die eventually, so none of this even really means anything. if you get shanked, that sucks, just stfu and roll up into a ball and die already and get it over with. just hope god will be kind enough to give you a shitty cot to lay on in some corner after its all said and done.

now excuse my while i go smoke weed till my eyes bleed and i pass out so i can get up in time to go back to work again.

this is one of those things you just say to get reactions, right?

[Garland]

i dont even think any of this matters. we all die eventually, so none of this even really means anything. if you get shanked, that sucks, just stfu and roll up into a ball and die already and get it over with. just hope god will be kind enough to give you a shitty cot to lay on in some corner after its all said and done.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBHLrpn07G4[/YOUTUBE]

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[DickHardman]

eh, i had a shitty day at work yesterday.

but yeah, i really hope that when i die that god will be kind enough to give me a cot to lay on in some corner. thats all i really want.