Katas: Any value for *real* combat?

[Nutz]

Someone posted on another forum about katas being effective for real combat if the practitioner understood their function. I call BS. Anyone care to debate the finer points of punching air vs getting smacked around and trying to fend off a real attack from a real person?


Here's a snip from his post:

In the martial arts, there is a Kata, a predeveloped form. In the xxx arts we call them "routines,". They do work in a fight if you understand
them and their purpose, but they will fail you if you do not grasp their
purpose. Now, if you use it in a fight, you can succeed, if you understand
them.

In time, you begin succeeding without them.

Eventually they become you.

[Britt]

Nice, Mike. You summed up my own opinions better than I could have.

[Hardball]

It's the footwork in katas that I like. I like the constant changing of directions.

[Guest]

You learn that attribute very fast, and in a functional environment, in Boxing.

[KirkhamsEbooks.]

[*]I know it's a tired cliche argument, but it happens to be true. Muscle memory. Doinga technique hundreds and hundreds of times makes it an easier, faster motion to accomplish under pressure.

I realize that and you're correct of course about learned reflexes. However in many cases look at what you're devleoping a reflex for

Chamber punching

Blocking and then striking

Rick

[kanik]

Yeah, katas are useless if you think there gonna "work in a fight"... But theres a method to the mdness, pretty much everything I was thining of saying has been said, so i will just say that katas and patterns dont "work" unless you've been doing them for an incredibly large amount of time, are thinking outside the box, and realise that you cant perform a kata or pattern in a fight. Taiji is very effective, but only if the practitioner is good, smart, and been doing it for a VERY long time, along with being tought by a GOOD instructer. Taiji is also very very form oriented. (not saying thats the ONLY things in it though)

[Garland]

Um...nope. They have no application in combat. They can be used as stretching and mindfullness/meditation, and maybe muscle endurance drills...which all come into play in combat...but forms/katas certainly don't have any practical application...unless you're opponent is trained at the same school to react in a choreographed fashion, i.e. dancing.

[Hardball]

You learn that attribute very fast, and in a functional environment, in Boxing.

This is the 21st century, most people are cross training.

[Guest]

This is the 21st century, most people are cross training.

Thanks for the update, but I don't understand how that is relavent to my point. This thread is about the value of kata, not the value of crosstraining.

[Hardball]

Thanks for the update, but I don't understand how that is relavent to my point. This thread is about the value of kata, not the value of crosstraining.

We were talking about the value of footwork in relation to kata then you brought up boxing.

[Ghost]

There are better, more effective, and even more efficient ways to train the tools used in combat.

that says it all really.

[Guest]

We were talking about the value of footwork in relation to kata then you brought up boxing.

I'll try to clarify. You said that one of the values you like from Kata was the switching of the footwork. I simply made a point to say that this attribute can, in my opinion, be achieved far more effectively through Boxing (i.e. I am challenging the value kata provides in the specific example you gave). You came back by saying people crosstrained.....and that lost me.

So are you saying that you still maintain that kata offers you a strength in this area of footwork, or are you saying crosstraining will enhance this attribute? If it is the former then my point stands, I suggest boxing is a far stronger route (i.e. I am challenging the value of kata, according to the thread intention). If you are saying the latter then to be honest thats pretty much a given, and I don't see it as a support for kata per say

You know what sir, I just read that back and even I'm bored, so I say lets drop it. I'm off for a beer.

[Hardball]

I'll buy you that beer mate!!!!LOL

[Guest]

Cheers!! Have a good Christmas my friend.

[Hardball]

Cheers and a Happy New Year Mate!